What are the worst engineering designs with our F'ers?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:34 pm

I'll go first:

To get the valve head off, you have to pull the whole friggin' engine! GRRRR!!!!! There's like 1/2 of an inch on the studs more, so when you pull the head up all the way, it hits the frame and can't clear the studs? I hate you Honda.

I know we all love our bikes, but curious to know what you other fellas hate about our bikes. What the "F!"

GO!

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:06 pm

I hate that my F is not together yet. Been doing my own version of a spencer look alike and I thought I would have had the bike done by now. Fitting 2000 Kawasaki zx600r rear sets to my bike at the moment. Then I'll do the cal fab swing arm and then the front end. That's going to be probably the hardest part of the build.

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:14 pm

I reckon it's the TWO cam chains and the bloody primary chain,yeah it makes it different to a Suzuki or Kawasaki but different isn't always better.They also could have made the head work a bit better.

Chris.

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:30 am

I have a cb750 SOHC; I flip open my seat and can remove my tank with one bold and work on the engine. At the 900 I have to remove 2 side covers and 4 bolds to remove the seat, than remove the bold from the tank and only then the engine top is accesable.
Just a small thing but everytime I do this I think why didn't they keep the SOHC method.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:04 pm

Where do you get 4 bolts from? I thought it was only 2?

Actually the worst thing about it is that as the side cover rubber grommets get older the extra force needed to override them is what cracks the covers.

I too like the flip up seats.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:46 pm

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:42 pm

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:22 pm

tomk1960 wrote:

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

I take the + cable off the solenoid and leave the + cable attached to the battery,,much, much easier way to remove the F battery IMHO Same with the CBX.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:26 pm

cbxdog wrote:

tomk1960 wrote:

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

I take the + cable off the solenoid and leave the + cable attached to the battery,,much, much easier way to remove the F battery IMHO Same with the CBX.

Disconnect the negative cable first!

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:36 pm

cliffiec wrote:

cbxdog wrote:

tomk1960 wrote:

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

I take the + cable off the solenoid and leave the + cable attached to the battery,,much, much easier way to remove the F battery IMHO Same with the CBX.

Disconnect the negative cable first!

Very good point Rick,, I forget when posting what is habit to me may not be to others beerchug

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:38 pm

cliffiec wrote:

cbxdog wrote:

tomk1960 wrote:

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

I take the + cable off the solenoid and leave the + cable attached to the battery,,much, much easier way to remove the F battery IMHO Same with the CBX.

Disconnect the negative cable first!

Too bad they couldn't move the threaded hole where the negative cable attaches to the frame so it can be removed without lifting the gas tank.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:46 pm

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:51 pm

Shawn_Mc wrote:

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

I use Petroleum jelly on the side cover grommets...it makes the side covers easy to take on/off and helps keep the rubber plyable....

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:58 pm

I've spent years nailing down and eliminating many and with considerable success. However IMO and overall they are better than what else was around at that time.
But it is interesting to see what people will post up on this question.

Captain

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:00 pm

Wayne750F wrote:

Shawn_Mc wrote:

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

I use Petroleum jelly on the side cover grommets...it makes the side covers easy to take on/off and helps keep the rubber plyable....

Added to this is a tip I learned from Wamkap and Chico: attach the two sidecovers together with one of those tiny bungee cords. When you make it easier to remove the sidecovers, they might depart the fix at an inopportune moment. This will at least keep them attached to the bike. On stock covers there's a space to insert a tie wrap which can then be used to hook the cover. The new covers on the beast feature solid tabs which will require a bit of engineering to attach a bungee to...

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:25 pm

cliffiec wrote:

Wayne750F wrote:

Shawn_Mc wrote:

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

I use Petroleum jelly on the side cover grommets...it makes the side covers easy to take on/off and helps keep the rubber plyable....

Added to this is a tip I learned from Wamkap and Chico: attach the two sidecovers together with one of those tiny bungee cords. When you make it easier to remove the sidecovers, they might depart the fix at an inopportune moment. This will at least keep them attached to the bike. On stock covers there's a space to insert a tie wrap which can then be used to hook the cover. The new covers on the beast feature solid tabs which will require a bit of engineering to attach a bungee to...

Rick,

I like the idea but having trouble visualizing the exact method you're describing.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:46 am

deandeib wrote:

cliffiec wrote:

Wayne750F wrote:

Shawn_Mc wrote:

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

I use Petroleum jelly on the side cover grommets...it makes the side covers easy to take on/off and helps keep the rubber plyable....

Added to this is a tip I learned from Wamkap and Chico: attach the two sidecovers together with one of those tiny bungee cords. When you make it easier to remove the sidecovers, they might depart the fix at an inopportune moment. This will at least keep them attached to the bike. On stock covers there's a space to insert a tie wrap which can then be used to hook the cover. The new covers on the beast feature solid tabs which will require a bit of engineering to attach a bungee to...

Rick,

I like the idea but having trouble visualizing the exact method you're describing.

Here are a couple of pics to illustrate the method.

The first picture shows the tie wrap attached to the hollow pin of the side cover. (Note here that these tie wraps get brittle with age, and should be changed out periodically, to prevent the tie wrap failing).

The second photo shows the two sidecovers tied together with the small bungee. Obviously, the bungee goes through the frame, just forward of the rear tire, to connect the covers one to the other.

When removing the sidecovers I just let them hang from the bungee cord, being careful not to let the wind make them flap.

Another tip when placing a sidecover on the bike: DO NOT "slap" the cover with the heel of your hand to seat the pins into the grommets! We all know where the pins are located on the back of the cover, push gently in these areas to seat the pins one at a time.

Hawk Joined: Jan 15, 2009 Posts: 406 Location: Plymouth

Frusting hard starting in the early days with OEM batteries Today now all the cranking power needed

Very reliable other than 1 stator melt down

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:20 am

This is almost like a sport, almost like what is there to not develop a hate for on these bikes? OK, that's a bit much, but here's a few of my peeves.

Charging rotors fail far too frequently and take out the crappy regulator that has no short circuit protection. DUH!

The stock ignition systems suck and will barely run on battery voltage without a working charging system. The sucky ignition is also the main reason so many guys foul so many plugs, as they barely produce any spark at all during cold start cranking when the battery voltage gets sucked down. So they get flooded, then fouled.

To specify further

Carburetors are a royal pain in the ass to install and remove. In all fairness, when these bikes were designed and built, the pump fuel used to last much longer without turning to shit. But the carbs are still a PITA. It's one of the reasons I went ahead and changed to Mikuni Smoothbores in the 80s.

Not being able to get the head off without removing the motor is really pretty lame, as is the removable frame piece in order to remove the motor. Jeeberz!

And the center cylinder stud channels between the cylinders on each side through the cylinder blocks on the '83 1000 and 1100 bikes that are open at the top but have no drain is really a good one. It causes the cylinder head studs to rust and rot until they are so fused to the cylinders you can't get them off without heroic measures! A few holes drilled in the bottom would have saved them a lot of real engineering embarrassment, they should be humiliated for designing such a failure.

I'm sure there are more, but those are some of my favorite peeves. Really Mad

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:35 am

No Gene, I think you about covered all the bases pretty well there....but we still love our bikes....

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:50 am

Wayne750F wrote:

....but we still love our bikes....

Well yeah, better the devil you know. Wink

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:27 am

Honda designs by committee. The lack of holes are ridiculous,make the solid aluminum around ALL the bolts to the top.

The head wont come off in the frame because the cam chain tensioner is taller than the rest and hits the frame tube.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:07 am

tomk1960 wrote:

Removing the battery from my DOHC bikes is a pain in the ass compared to my SOHC. Access to the positive battery terminal isn't that great.

+1

My method is to remove the igniters first (which lessens the pain a little).

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:11 am

Wayne750F wrote:

Shawn_Mc wrote:

sfhess wrote:

I haven't cracked a side cover in 34 years. Only changed the grommets once. I lubed them with silicone spray once or twice.

I use Petroleum jelly on the side cover grommets...it makes the side covers easy to take on/off and helps keep the rubber plyable....

Agree. In addition, my theory is that if the grommets are lubed, it's easier to get a 'positive' fit with the cover so less chance the cover will fly off accidentally, even though it will pull of easier.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:28 am

they didn't make a CB1100R in volume for the mass's - never did work out Honda marketing strategy, gorgeous bike that performed in a different class, that scooped up dam't near every production race series - that you could then go an tour on - and what did they do ? - built a V4 - mad

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:29 am

AMC49 wrote:

Where do you get 4 bolts from? I thought it was only 2?

Actually the worst thing about it is that as the side cover rubber grommets get older the extra force needed to override them is what cracks the covers.

I too like the flip up seats.

Two at the rear end at the signallights and two behind the site covers Smile

Hawk Joined: Aug 17, 2013 Posts: 302 Location: Devon. UK

RobHondaCB wrote:

AMC49 wrote:

Where do you get 4 bolts from? I thought it was only 2?

Actually the worst thing about it is that as the side cover rubber grommets get older the extra force needed to override them is what cracks the covers.

I too like the flip up seats.

Two at the rear end at the signallights and two behind the site covers Smile

1983 euro 1100's and 900's have a rear passenger grab rail that that's attached to the rear cowl and bolts to the frame.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:33 am

piss and moan. these bikes are easy to work on.
my 900 (since built) is 21 years old now. no problems
with any of this.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:40 pm

nlovie wrote:

they didn't make a CB1100R in volume for the mass's - never did work out Honda marketing strategy, gorgeous bike that performed in a different class, that scooped up dam't near every production race series - that you could then go an tour on - and what did they do ? - built a V4 - mad

The CB1100R in volume for the masses was the CB1100F. The decision to go V4 for the large street bike program was made in 1980, before the R was successful in racing.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:42 pm

genesound wrote:

Carburetors are a royal pain in the ass to install and remove. In all fairness, when these bikes were designed and built, the pump fuel used to last much longer without turning to shit. But the carbs are still a PITA. It's one of the reasons I went ahead and changed to Mikuni Smoothbores in the 80s.

Really Mad

I would agree with this. Almost every hobby mechanic will take the carbs off at one time or the other. And squeezing these things in between the airbox and the cylinder head is a nightmare.