The End of the 2007 Racing Season...

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:46 pm

Well, the racing season ended for me a week ago today and now like everyone else I've got "winter project time" to go work on two race Hondas instead of the Honda and a Z1. It was a fairly decent season all in all... My Honda is faster than my Z1 with much better mid-range, better brakes, and much better transition side-side (much easier to get turned into corners when you are going left-right-left.)

The plan for next year is to build and keep two Hondas in the trailer for all the national stuff as the Honda is legal for all the national classes I contest with AHRMA. The clubs I race with regionally have a vintage class with a cutoff of 1978 model year so the only Honda I could run in those would be a CB750 SOHC and the Z1 just kills those, although I will admit that Gary Nixon was riding a SOHC Honda at Mid-Ohio about 5 years ago and I couldn't get by him - but I won't feel bad about that!

Any problems that I had this season with the Honda only affected one race - the Dyna 2000 ignition I was running started causing a bad miss at Miller in Formula Vintage. The Honda also had a second Dyna 2000 ignition fail and a Dyna coil plus my Gurney magnesium wheel broke at Barber's. Luckily all of those were in practice and I was able to either get 'em fixed or in the case of the wheel just switch to the Z1 for the race. The Kawasaki Z1 didn't have any problems beyond a real bad mid-range part-throttle miss at Phoenix last week but otherwise ran well every time I rode it.

The Honda is faster by 1.5 seconds per lap at Mid-Ohio and 0.7 seconds per lap at our local track which is a very short 1.1 mile course. That's a huge difference and why I want to move to two Hondas for the National series as that kind of gap is the difference between running with the leaders and finishing 10-12 seconds behind them at the end! (you can see that when you look at the results at the bottom of this post) I haven't won a national event on the Kaw in two years - but don't think I'm saying that the Z1's aren't competitive as I've been beaten by Z1s when riding the Honda! I'm just saying MY Z1 isn't as competitive as my Hondas and I want to keep focusing on them.

Results for 32 sprint races:
-----------Wins----2nd----3rd----4th----5th----6th
CB-F-------11-------4-------1---------------------1*------*ignition problem
Kaw Z1-----8-------1-------1------1------3------1
Total-------19-------5-------2------1------3------2
Series-wise results: Nationally for the season I finished 3rd in Formula Vintage and 4th in Vintage Superbike with AHRMA. AHRMA counts the top 11 finishes for the national series, but I only did 8 races but had good finishes in almost all of them. AHRMA also selects a set of races to make up regional series, one of which covers Willow Springs, Miller Motorsports and Sandia. This region is called "Best in the West" and I won both Formula Vintage and Vintage Superbike classes for those - I ran in all those races. Our local club worked with the CCS club in Phoenix to run a four race series and I won the Historic Vintage and Super Vintage classes for that series plus won the same season classes for our local club.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:59 pm

You had a busy season this year and it looks like you had a lot of fun.
More power to you.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:51 pm

That is so cool Dennis. Like some of here I know whats its like to get everything ready for the weekend, load up the trailer, and drive in an almost dream like state while heading off to the races. Its pretty special. To see you doing it on our bikes is the cats azz! Keep up the good work and enjoy your off season. By the way, do you know of any vintage events in the northeast?

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:52 pm

I remember the old times of racing back in the middle 70's being more fun on the traveling side than it is today. My racing started out with me flat tracking and my dad borrowing a friend's trailer to get to the races. Finally my dad and two younger brothers were all racing flat track together. My dad bought one of those old 60-ish Ford Econoline vans with the motor between the front seats. We'd load that dang thing up with four bikes and all the gear for four guys to last a weekend and go wallowing out onto the highways to go racing. We'd dirt track Friday and Saturday night at different places, and occasionally on Sunday. We'd camp out in sleeping bags on the ground, not shower for three days and get coated in the dirt from the races. I wouldn't trade that for anything, especially now that my dad and youngest brother are gone.

The funniest story about camping out one night was we had flat track races in two different locations on Friday night and Saturday night. We had finished races for Friday, and because the other race was about 4 hours driving time away we decided to head that way so we could be closer when Saturday showed up. We're driving along in the sticks on a two lane highway and see this really nice grassy area in our headlights on our side with a small road giving access. We couldn't stop in time so we rolled on past, turned around and pulled into it. It was about the size of a city lot with nice 12" high grass and a hill at the back that we could just see in our headlights. We pulled toward the hill and parked next to it about 75' away from the highway for a little peace and quiet, shut down the van and all four of us rolled out our sleeping bags and went to sleep like the dog-tired people we were.

After drifting off into a nice sleep in the pitch black of the backwoods darkness we were awakened by the most god-awful loud hooting rumbling noise that was shaking the ground and absolutely scared the crap out of me. I was speechless and couldn't even catch my breath. The light of a million suns was blinding us and the ground was shaking and rumbling with that god-awful loud noise getting louder. I swore it was a UFO landing right on top of us - until the locomotive went past and we could see the rest of the train rolling by. We had parked about 10' from a railroad track!

Changing the subject a little, I was looking my previous results post and it's kind of misleading - My AHRMA results aren't as good as the table would lead you to believe, so here are my national race results separated out. It also shows the obvious difference in performance between my two bikes. Go HONDA!

Finish----Win--2nd--3rd--4th--5th--6th
CB-F------4-----3-----1------------------1
Z-1--------------1-----1-----1-----3-----1

I won all the local / regional races except one where I finished 2nd.

My second Honda CB-F will be that black one that I posted previously on, but I think I'll be running 18" wheels on both so I can swap wheels/tires around between the two and carry less spare junk plus they'll handle more closely to each other.

I've still got 3 or 4 more Honda CB-Fs so I'm toying with building a more radical one over the next year - motor & wheel radical, that is. I have enough parts on hand or 'orderable' to make a 1000cc short stroke motor plus I've got commitment from my machinist buddy to help out with it. That'd be "interesting" but it's not the highest priority of junk piles I need to work on. I have a 2nd CBX that I need to finish and get back on the street so I can keep my 'bought new' '79 red CBX parked in my dining room where it is now. Then there's that CB550 that I want to put together to go racing on locally. That will be a budget racer with bolt on junk that I've got laying around. Then there's a guy who's somewhat interested in a package deal on my GPz550 collection (junk pile #2) consisting of two GPz550s, a cruiser 550 and two KZ550 and one KZ650 motor. I'm hoping that goes through so I can consolidate - OK, spend the money on my other bikes.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:48 am

DTM...

Congrats!!!

Now is when the hard work starts....the OFF SEASON.

Keep up the hard/good work!

J

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:54 am

Dennis.... guess you broke the "F"s wheel on fri.?...so you don't show up on Barbers pic pages. but your {traitor} bike made it...

another Honda guy...

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:08 am

Great results, and great reports, Dennis.

Our 1100F racer is nearing completion, too - setting up run scheduled for 8 Dec and first races for the 9th (our new season started down here a few weeks ago, but I've had a coupla dirtbike projects that have been taking time...) I would like to be able to post some results as good as yours - my excuse is that every meeting of ours is a national championship one, as all the fast guys here are in my area of the country.

We are right now planning a smaller motor for mine, so we can come to the USA and ride some AHRMA meets. Will keep everyone posted, but that'll be a build in time for maybe March 2009.

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:50 am

Hey PJay - Dr. Tom is going to take his CBX down under to ride in the "International Challenge" event at Phillip Island - something about the world against the Australians... Anyway, he should be there in January. He's trying to collect money to help support shipping his CBX over there; he thinks it'll cost about $5000 US. What races are you thinking about coming over for? My favorite tracks are: #1 Barber's; #1a Mid-Ohio; maybe #1b Road America (i've never been there but everyone rants about it; it's 4+ miles long) and it seems like everyone wants to do Daytona.

Natscape, I broke the wheel Saturday morning in our only practice that day so I had to take the Z1 out cold. It had BAD front end chatter that I couldn't get rid of... bad bad bad; bad enough that when I rode it anywhere near as fast as I thought it should go I thought it was going to run off the track. It was okay straight up and down, but as soon as I leaned it over at all it started chattering and if I kept any corner speed up at all it kept chattering. Getting on the gas helped but you can't do that until the corner finishes...

Here's another photo -

He's got a bunch more photos here:

Tharkunsden Website

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:35 pm

[/quote]

Dennis,
What class are you racing in with/against the CBX? What mods can you make to the wheels / suspension, Is there a model year limit on suspensions / wheels?

Thanks
JT

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:13 pm

Vintage Superbike Heavyweight is the AHRMA class we race in.
Suspension: Front Forks must be no larger than 41mm - his are VF1000R forks. Rear suspension must remain the 'same' as stock, i.e. two shocks or whatever the bike came with. You can't go from two shocks to a single levered shock or anything like that. He has some nice Works shocks if I remember right. Also, no remote reservoirs allowed but piggyback is okay.
Wheels: anything from 16" to 19" with max width 3.5" front and 4.5" rear. He's running F2 17" wheels at max width and modern Michelin rubber.

The rules do specify "period correct" but that's somewhat open to interpretation...

The Z1 is definitely 'older school' than the CBX which is why I prefer to ride the Honda in AHRMA. However, in our local club we actually have two vintage classes - one is Historic Vintage for pre-78 bikes and is generally all 2-valve aircooled. The other class is Super Vintage which is generally through '83 and allows 4-valve air & water cooled stuff - Think GPz, first year interceptor, GS-4 valve and CB-F. My Z1 is "for" our local Historic class and my Honda is for the Super class and AHRMA but isn't legal for our local Historic class. AHRMA doesn't care, so I run my Honda when I can and my Z1 when the Honda breaks so I don't waste the trip, gas, pre-entry and vacation by going somewhere and not getting to ride. I can run with Dr. Tom on the Honda but not on the Z1.

I'm thinkin' two Hondas will be the FAST ticket for me in AHRMA and when I get them both done my Z1 will stay home for our local races.

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:08 pm

Hi, Dennis

Yes, I saw Dr Tom is aiming to be at PI Jan 2008. We have decided to skip it that time, but be there for 2009, when the F bike should be fully sorted. (See my adventures from 2007 on another thread - oops - on reflection, I seem to recall that you did see it...)

We are aiming definitely to go to Barbers (I have met Mr Barber - I was Chair of the NZ classic racing organisation when he and team came over here one time), and do Vintage Daytona. One of our business associates has built machines that have done very well at Daytona, so we have some past gloriesa to try to revive.

Vintage Superbike Heavyweight is what we would run; just doing some figures to see if we would be better off with a <931 CB750F motor unrestricted carburetion or a <1015 CB900F with CR29s or CVs. What we did want to do was a big 750 on unrestricted carbs, but the 931 limit obstructs that plan.

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:09 am

PJay, I keep thinking one of the motors I'd like to try would be a short stroke 750 based motor of <930cc to run unrestricted carb wise but I haven't done all my homework to get there. I think the big bore would unshroud the valves to help it breathe but I don't know. My 985 / 29mm CR motor will run with Dr. Tom's CBX (I haven't been pulled much on my CB-F by anybody's anything in Vintage Superbike except for Thad Wolff's Suzuki GS1000S - 148mph at Daytona on radar) and that's saying a lot for hauling my fat butt (6'3" ~240lb) around. HOWEVER - I can only judge from behind someone so I'm getting the draft helping me too. Once we're 120mph+ there could be a whole different story about running with those other bikes. I could be by myself behind the really fast bikes...

I like Barber's the best of all the tracks I've run on. Plus - the museum can make up for almost any bad day of racing. The vintage festival is getting bigger every year - there's even 'crowds' watching the races!

A comment about the carbs - you can run 'stock' carbs of any size and I've wondered about whether the stock CVs could be made to flow more than the 29mm CRs on a big motor... You should read the rulebook closely. I've looked for an article I had a copy of for a short time on 'race modified CV carbs' that was done by Honda's race shop and shared. Wish I could find it again.

I do know there is the possibility of running 'restrictor plates' with big carbs but I haven't done that though I know for a fact some of my competitors have. Again, read the rules, but not just the Vintage Superbike section - check out the carb section for other roadrace classes too.

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:09 pm

Are those oil catcher pans mandatory for AHMRA or just track specific.

I see a lot of vintage guys race here in the north east with out those pans on
old bikes.... just wondering.

J

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:24 pm

Dennis,
Thanks for the reply. I think I might build a CBX racer and try and do a couple of races. I have most of everything I need except for that F2 rear wheel. I even have Dr Tom's VF750F forks he was going to use before he switched to the VF1000 forks. Would like to to find out more on the 'race modified CV carbs' as $2500 smoothbores are out of the question at this time.

JT

DennisTheMenace wrote:

Vintage Superbike Heavyweight is the AHRMA class we race in.
Suspension: Front Forks must be no larger than 41mm - his are VF1000R forks. Rear suspension must remain the 'same' as stock, i.e. two shocks or whatever the bike came with. You can't go from two shocks to a single levered shock or anything like that. He has some nice Works shocks if I remember right. Also, no remote reservoirs allowed but piggyback is okay.
Wheels: anything from 16" to 19" with max width 3.5" front and 4.5" rear. He's running F2 17" wheels at max width and modern Michelin rubber.

The rules do specify "period correct" but that's somewhat open to interpretation...

The Z1 is definitely 'older school' than the CBX which is why I prefer to ride the Honda in AHRMA. However, in our local club we actually have two vintage classes - one is Historic Vintage for pre-78 bikes and is generally all 2-valve aircooled. The other class is Super Vintage which is generally through '83 and allows 4-valve air & water cooled stuff - Think GPz, first year interceptor, GS-4 valve and CB-F. My Z1 is "for" our local Historic class and my Honda is for the Super class and AHRMA but isn't legal for our local Historic class. AHRMA doesn't care, so I run my Honda when I can and my Z1 when the Honda breaks so I don't waste the trip, gas, pre-entry and vacation by going somewhere and not getting to ride. I can run with Dr. Tom on the Honda but not on the Z1.

I'm thinkin' two Hondas will be the FAST ticket for me in AHRMA and when I get them both done my Z1 will stay home for our local races.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:33 am

DennisTheMenace wrote:

Hey PJay - Dr. Tom is going to take his CBX down under to ride in the "International Challenge" event at Phillip Island - something about the world against the Australians...

i understand the challenge has been cancelled and replaced with extra sidecar races.
Dr Tom can still get a ride in the regular Forgotten Era events but his bike may have to conform to the Aus rules now, better tell him to contact the organisers to confirm this.