Bad Bad Bad

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:16 pm

My red CB1100F that was the fastest one in California and the 2nd fastest in the world is no more.
Cylinders 2 and 3 are fucking shot and this is only the preliminary findings.
I am gonna find melted aluminum when I open it up.
She will not fire and it sounds like she has no compression.
I ran the bike for 2 miles when I should have shut her down and probably killed it the rest of the way.
This is bad and I will not be taking that bike to the show this weekend.
As a matter of fact, I aint gonna be goin anywhere for a while.
THIS SUCKS

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:20 pm

NFG, but I'm sure you'll get this behind you too.

You've built so many of these, I'm sure you could do it with one hand tied behind you.

Come to think of it, it would be good for that hand if you did tie it behind you Rolling Eyes

.

Hope things come together quickly.

Gord Confused

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:47 pm

Gord's probably right but it still sucks. Sorry to hear about it.

Sean

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:51 pm

Huge bummer Ray. Let us know what you find when you open it up...

Hawk Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 317 Location: Bangor, ME.

What happened?

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:13 pm

fasterspider wrote:

My red CB1100F that was the fastest one in California and the 2nd fastest in the world is no more.
Cylinders 2 and 3 are fucking shot and this is only the preliminary findings.
I am gonna find melted aluminum when I open it up.
She will not fire and it sounds like she has no compression.
I ran the bike for 2 miles when I should have shut her down and probably killed it the rest of the way.
This is bad and I will not be taking that bike to the show this weekend.
As a matter of fact, I aint gonna be goin anywhere for a while.
THIS SUCKS

Ray! Are you still going to go to the show with us Sat AM excet on your Blue bike? Question

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:17 pm

PapaLuker wrote:

fasterspider wrote:

My red CB1100F that was the fastest one in California and the 2nd fastest in the world is no more.
Cylinders 2 and 3 are fucking shot and this is only the preliminary findings.
I am gonna find melted aluminum when I open it up.
She will not fire and it sounds like she has no compression.
I ran the bike for 2 miles when I should have shut her down and probably killed it the rest of the way.
This is bad and I will not be taking that bike to the show this weekend.
As a matter of fact, I aint gonna be goin anywhere for a while.
THIS SUCKS

Ray! Are you still going to go to the show with us Sat AM excet on your Blue bike? Question

No, I aint going anywhere.
My blue bike is being ridden by my buddy Edgar while his car54 is busted and I have two cars to choose from until my bike is fixed.
I will not have the time to spare until this situation is rectified and my bike is running again.
Oh well guys, shit happens and sometimes shit is bad.

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:50 pm

I'm at a complete loss for words...

Total Bummer ... Sad

Well Ray keep us updated on the culprit.

Looks like it's up to Me and a few others to do the earsplitting this weekend!

<Lee>

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:51 pm

That does suck! Sad

Sorry too hear this Ray. Sad

First things first.........find out what caused this . Wink

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:53 pm

Bummer bummer ray. Im sure youll sort it out soon enough.....

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:05 pm

GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!!

You can't get a break edgewise right now, Ray. Let me know if there is any way I can help. Unlikely with your skillset, but I am offering anyway. Sendin good juju your way, brother man.

Jose

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:19 pm

I'm sorry to hear that it is "bad." I'm sure your skills and abilities will outshine this setback though....

I hope the good advice, parts and hands-on help you have offered this group is reflected right back to you as you get your F together again... I for one am here to help if you need anything... even if it's just some positive thoughts..

Godspeed to your new, new super F!

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:35 pm

PapaLuker wrote:

fasterspider wrote:

My red CB1100F that was the fastest one in California and the 2nd fastest in the world is no more.
Cylinders 2 and 3 are fucking shot and this is only the preliminary findings.
I am gonna find melted aluminum when I open it up.
She will not fire and it sounds like she has no compression.
I ran the bike for 2 miles when I should have shut her down and probably killed it the rest of the way.
This is bad and I will not be taking that bike to the show this weekend.
As a matter of fact, I aint gonna be goin anywhere for a while.
THIS SUCKS

Ray! Are you still going to go to the show with us Sat AM excet on your Blue bike? Question

As much as this thread hurts , i can still remeber the feeling when a rod shot out and had to limp/walk my 1100f home and was without my very own Favorite ride for 2 years Embarassed

I had to downgrade to a KZ1000 OUCH!!!
Still scared the vee-twin croud at that show , but now i'll finally get to do it with my 'F !!!
But See Luke this is a classic case of 1 needing a few more awesome running bikes around Laughing

I'll remember to laugh next time any1 tells me to get rid of any of the 5 bikes parked around here!
Very Happy

<Lee>

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:52 pm

So I take it the cause was not a crank case pressure issue.

Can you share with us the specifics of what was going on at the time?

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:06 pm

That truly sucks. Not a good day in LA.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:56 am

INTIMIDA2OR wrote:

I had to downgrade to a KZ1000 OUCH!!!

Hey! I resemble that remark! Shocked

Twinstar Joined: Mar 25, 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Ohio

I know it's not much consolation but I have found thru years of this aggravating shit that these things run in spurts. I think yours started with your wrist and hopefully has ended with this. I wish there was someway to make it better for ya but it doesn't work that way. That surely was one gorgeous motor though. Good luck.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:19 am

Ray & I have observed disquieting similarities. I think his attitude is more like mine: The old "Hee Haw" show song. "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all". The fun is in making it no matter what life throws at you.
Or, as the Marines say, "Improvise, adapt, overcome".
What say you, Spider? (He'll come out the other side with something killer--watch out for the long-awaited Super Bus.) TB.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:23 am

Tennessee_Budd wrote:

Ray & I have observed disquieting similarities. I think his attitude is more like mine: The old "Hee Haw" show song. "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all". The fun is in making it no matter what life throws at you.
Or, as the Marines say, "Improvise, adapt, overcome".
What say you, Spider? (He'll come out the other side with something killer--watch out for the long-awaited Super Bus.) TB.

I am going to build my original red bike motor up and install her then make her a garage queen, fuck it.
I have the blue bike that will get me around as soon as my buddy puts the throttle cable in his Prelude and then I will build the Super Bus.
One way or the other I will be riding a Super F soon.
oohrahh

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:52 am

Hey Ray
Sorry too hear you`re bummed out , when it gets you down focus on
the joy in your heart that can only be felt thru a freshly seated set of
piston rings.
It`s hard to say goodbye but who doesn`t love a new motor.
DanimalOXO7

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:29 am

so do you know what caused the failure Ray? Or even what failed?

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:34 am

razor02097 wrote:

so do you know what caused the failure Ray? Or even what failed?

Not until I open her up.
It was cylinders 2 & 3 that failed, the plugs are way ugly.
I will post pictures and all when I get to it.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:42 am

Maybe the cam chain skipped a couple teeth alowing the pistons to hit the valves?

just a guess.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:29 am

If it jumped time all the valves hit at least all the intakes or all the exhausts. You do not have just 2 and 3 bad. It is a wonder that it is not ignition related since cylinders on a common coil show a problem.

Does not really matter for Ray,but for anyone considering building an 1123cc(.080" over 1063cc) it is extremely important to have a reputable shop bore/hone the cylinders This means someone like MTC(Tony Lang) in Florida or APE (Jay Esplach) in California. These shops (and others) are familiar with motorcycle work and do good work. It is just short of amazing how a shop can screw up the cylinder bore and not admit to it. I have seen every version of taper and out of round you can imagine. I do not mean "tenths" either as I have seen .005" taper and/or .004" out of round. The out of round was bad enough the piston would not enter the cylinder if turned 90 degrees(pistons are cam ground out of round on purpose). This is so they become round when they reach operating temperature.

In the perfomance world the latest is to match the cylinder finish to the ring thickness. A narrow ring requires a smoother wall and the narrow ring seals better at high revs due to less flutter. A good cylinder is true round and true straight. There is a tremendous amount of power lost with a poor cylinder,plus it can flex the rings till they break. Basically you should not see ANY crankcase pressure,it is an indication of a poor bore job. A poor job could have easily been the reason for the engine failure due to blowby overheating the piston(s).

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:00 pm

I remember how bummed I was many years ago after spending months and months souping up my Corvair only to lose the camshaft on its first stress run after break-in. Totally deflated young man I was.

Hope it all goes well--maybe you'll bring it back blue? For a little added life--if a bit slower???

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:56 pm

I know you had problems with #2 & #3 the first time around. For some reason the rings did not seat?

Yes, I am no in Italy. 747 was suppose to leave at 6:30 last night buy 2 am this morning they still could not get a hydraulic system to check out so the sent us home. Try again at 2pm...

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:59 pm

stoutblock wrote:

I know you had problems with #2 & #3 the first time around. For some reason the rings did not seat?

Yes, I am no in Italy. 747 was suppose to leave at 6:30 last night buy 2 am this morning they still could not get a hydraulic system to check out so the sent us home. Try again at 2pm...

We can only hope that my Carillos did not get hurt in this episode.
I am going to cut my losses with that motor and put the HiPer parts in the original motor that never had a problem before unlike the one now that suffered a catastrophic failure once already.
This will happen next week when my lift is empty and my back is better.
Good luck on the flight leavong on time today.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:26 pm

sonicrete wrote:

If it jumped time all the valves hit at least all the intakes or all the exhausts. You do not have just 2 and 3 bad. It is a wonder that it is not ignition related since cylinders on a common coil show a problem.

Does not really matter for Ray,but for anyone considering building an 1123cc(.080" over 1063cc) it is extremely important to have a reputable shop bore/hone the cylinders This means someone like MTC(Tony Lang) in Florida or APE (Jay Esplach) in California. These shops (and others) are familiar with motorcycle work and do good work. It is just short of amazing how a shop can screw up the cylinder bore and not admit to it. I have seen every version of taper and out of round you can imagine. I do not mean "tenths" either as I have seen .005" taper and/or .004" out of round. The out of round was bad enough the piston would not enter the cylinder if turned 90 degrees(pistons are cam ground out of round on purpose). This is so they become round when they reach operating temperature.

In the perfomance world the latest is to match the cylinder finish to the ring thickness. A narrow ring requires a smoother wall and the narrow ring seals better at high revs due to less flutter. A good cylinder is true round and true straight. There is a tremendous amount of power lost with a poor cylinder,plus it can flex the rings till they break. Basically you should not see ANY crankcase pressure,it is an indication of a poor bore job. A poor job could have easily been the reason for the engine failure due to blowby overheating the piston(s).

Sonic have you ever heard of Savage auto parts? I think they started as just a machine shop and now they sell KOI parts too. These are the go to guys my boss uses for all our machining needs (bores, truing, head refinishing, cam swaps, etc.) Jim (my boss) thinks highly of them.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:36 pm

Wow what a shitter Ray.
After all that F'in work.
Get well soon to your bike .
Greg

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:34 am

I have/had a friend that used to do good work in Columbus. He has a Kwik-way boring bar and a tool room style horizontal hone.

Usually his work was slow to get done and I needed a bore and sleeve job using an 1100 cylinder and installing sleeves to be 1187cc.

Long story short 2 yrs later I get a junk job. This was the .004" out of round on 3 holes the one was so far at an angle the sleeves hit at the bottom. A new sleeve to fix the first screw up,different part number to have stock to fix the hole and in this case you do not have much room to work with. This cylinder came up round but somehow he cut too much off the flange so was below flush. I decked the mess in attempt to fix it and assembled a motor. It ran for about 30 sec and went off song,would not refire. Leak test showed air coming out #2 with #1 on test,obvious head gasket. Pulled it apart to find all sleeves had dropped,ie none of them were completely down. I then checked and found the .004" out of round. The clearance felt OK with the pistons the correct direction,it was when I turned them 90 degrees and found they would not enter.

Bottom line. You get what you pay for. I bought a "big block" from APE(actually two) and the work was perfect when new. A sleeve was installed after a failure and again perfect. This was with a metal wire "O" ring installed. I have seen the quality of work done by Tony Lang of MTC Pistons. It was a cylinder that Joe Marasco(MSP) just got back. I learned my lesson. Never again local work. I will risk the possibility of loss/damage in shipping.

This same story can be repeated for crank work from Columbus Col-Weld. The spray on material must have been cold so did not hold. Broke in the middle of 3rd gear. Cost a Carrillo rod and of course the cylinder and crankcase.not to mention broke up the set of small wrist pin 1063cc high compression pistons.

Buying junk motors usually blown up 900's and using 750 cases to build the race engines has one problem,the crankshaft. I thought Col-Weld could do decent work,I was wrong.

The best place to get good 900 crankshafts is from 900C shaft drive motors. The breakers have problems getting the motor out so you can get the remains cheap and they are not driven hard like an "F". I am in process of breaking down a 1000C and these are a wealth of good parts. The main cam chain tensioner is 1100F,the solid metal kind. The cylinder block is solid,no cooling holes,but I do not have it off yet to report actual sleeve size. I will report a complete inventory of what I find.