how often do you replace brake caliper seals

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:44 pm

recently i've done x 3 sets - one for a friends RGV, one for my sons VFR and another for my own project
my sons bike is the good example
he reconned the brakes were fine, thats just the way they are, when I tried the bike - didn't like, they were fine when you spanked them hard but dead on the initial light touch / feel- initially I thought it was sintered pads in need of a bit of heat to get them working, maybe there was a touch of this
changed the seals and they are now very nice, - no obvious difference in the full on mod. - but that initial bite, light brake feel is much nicer and TBH this is where you use the brake most of the time

so its just a reminder for those restoring / running older bikes - don't ignore fitting a fresh set of calliper and M/C seals - you may just be used to how they are performing but a fresh set can bring back an improved initial feel

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:55 pm

Not a bad idea to do as you suggest when brake troubles start. A complete tear down and rebuild will most likely surprise many in the "what I found inside my caliper/s" sense.

Having re-and-re'd the brakes be sure to follow up this work with routine (every two years or so) brake system re-bleed/fluid flush change outs. I think the fouled brake fluid syndrome (brake fluid is hydroscopic..absorbs moisture) is maybe the number one killer of well functioning brake calipers. The onset of a bad brakes is a very subtle thing that sneaks up on you.

I know that brake up-grades are done often with great results from all accounts. I'm of the opinion that well maintained stock brake set ups do a hell of a good job, if they are working properly.

T.

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:28 pm

TigreST wrote:

I know that brake up-grades are done often with great results from all accounts. I'm of the opinion that well maintained stock brake set ups do a hell of a good job, if they are working properly.

T.

+1 The OEM brakes on my 1100F are rock hard and impressive. Properly rebuilt and maintained, along with SS braided lines, will keep them that way.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:39 am

and take the opportunity to change seals for DOT 5, none glycol based fluid and yir paint worries go away
it probably just needs you to buy the seals and soak them in dot 5 for a while to confirm nothing happens

and if the seals do react, and there isn't a solution in the market ??? - then there's an opportunity

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:48 am

nlovie wrote:

and take the opportunity to change seals for DOT 5, none glycol based fluid and yir paint worries go away
it probably just needs you to buy the seals and soak them in dot 5 for a while to confirm nothing happens

and if the seals do react, and there isn't a solution in the market ??? - then there's an opportunity

"Some" will get upset with this but I have Dot 5 in everything I have (Cars and Motorcycles) As some of you know I am also into American Muscle Cars and have 4 auto's from 65 thru 73 and all of them have been rebuilt with the OEM seals from the callipers thru master cylinders and none of them has reacted negatively. My Bikes are a KTM and CBX and again with new OEM seals and master cylinders there has been zero problems. In all cases the pedal and or levers are impressive. There has been "NO" reaction by any seal or component anywhere. Now just to put more fuel on the fire, all of this was done 20 years ago for the oldest and 3-4 years ago for the latest so there is no question that time or age is working against it.

Captain

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:46 am

Captain wrote:

nlovie wrote:

and take the opportunity to change seals for DOT 5, none glycol based fluid and yir paint worries go away
it probably just needs you to buy the seals and soak them in dot 5 for a while to confirm nothing happens

and if the seals do react, and there isn't a solution in the market ??? - then there's an opportunity

"Some" will get upset with this but I have Dot 5 in everything I have (Cars and Motorcycles) As some of you know I am also into American Muscle Cars and have 4 auto's from 65 thru 73 and all of them have been rebuilt with the OEM seals from the callipers thru master cylinders and none of them has reacted negatively. My Bikes are a KTM and CBX and again with new OEM seals and master cylinders there has been zero problems. In all cases the pedal and or levers are impressive. There has been "NO" reaction by any seal or component anywhere. Now just to put more fuel on the fire, all of this was done 20 years ago for the oldest and 3-4 years ago for the latest so there is no question that time or age is working against it.

Captain

"Some" WILL DEFINITELY get upset - the DOT5 discussion always stirs up debate. I am a huge supporter of switching to DOT5 and have done so with all of my restorations. I recently had to disassemble the front master on my VF1000F so I could replace the sight glass. I took it completely apart for thorough cleaning and the seals, which had been in DOT5 for the past 4+ years looked and felt as new as the day I first put them in. As Brent stated, the levers have an impressive feel and my bikes have excellent brakes - better than most that I have checked out on other bikes.

IMO, the whole controversy is built on speculation and conjecture. I have yet to see any proof of seal failure or adverse effects from using DOT5 - only extremely positive results. Until someone shows me empirical data or hard evidence to the contrary, I will always use DOT5 in my restorations.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:12 pm

My 1983 Harley Lowrider runs DOT5 Smile

!

T.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:25 pm

If it's on the internet it must be true:

The link below explains one of the diffs between the fluid types. Boiling point. It also explains which ones can mix with which ones. Key here is silicone based (DOT5) v glycol based (DOT3 and DOT4).

I believe some have mentioned a different "feel" between the types...I can't say that I have noticed that. I do know that ole Harley doesn't brake like my Honda's do. A fellow long time Harley riding buddy (The Dirt) mentions this difference when ever the topic of brakes come up. He rode an FJ-1100 many years ago and just about went over the bars when coming on to the brakes. They were/are much more sensitive/effective than his Softtail Custom Harley brakes ever were.

I always like the idea that DOT5 was paint damage proof. I think it's more expensive perhaps (?) if that matters to you.

If you do not work on your own brakes it may be wise to indicate the brake fluid type so as to protect against cross contamination.

http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/resources/faq/difference-between-dot4-and-dot51-brake-fluid/

No debate intended.

T.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:31 pm

Not to debate the use of DOT 5 vs DOT 3/4 but do not mix these. Also if you change I would replace the seals and hoses. I have seen what happens when you mix these. It turns into a jelly like substance alot like vaseline (depending on how clean the fluid was). I have also seen the effects to the seals when changing the fluid from one to the other without changing them This is changing from DOT 3 to DOT 5. The seals swell up and fail.

Brent, I am curious to see if you use DOT 5 in your race bike.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:35 pm

TigreST wrote:

If it's on the internet it must be true:

The link below explains one of the diffs between the fluid types. Boiling point. It also explains which ones can mix with which ones. Key here is silicone based (DOT5) v glycol based (DOT3 and DOT4).

I believe some have mentioned a different "feel" between the types...I can't say that I have noticed that. I do know that ole Harley doesn't brake like my Honda's do. A fellow long time Harley riding buddy (The Dirt) mentions this difference when ever the topic of brakes come up. He rode an FJ-1100 many years ago and just about went over the bars when coming on to the brakes. They were/are much more sensitive/effective than his Softtail Custom Harley brakes ever were.

I always like the idea that DOT5 was paint damage proof. I think it's more expensive perhaps (?) if that matters to you.

If you do not work on your own brakes it may be wise to indicate the brake fluid type so as to protect against cross contamination.

http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/resources/faq/difference-between-dot4-and-dot51-brake-fluid/

No debate intended.

T.

If you notice in the article DOT 5.1 is not the same as 5. 3, 4 and 5.1 are glycol based. 5 is silicon based.......

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:39 pm

If you change to dot5 everything must be perfectly cleaned out. I made the mistake of not doing that and it crusted up bad over time. I went back to dot 3 and replaced a lot of parts. Wish I could say I noticed a difference between the two but didn't.

CB1100F Joined: Feb 17, 2009 Posts: 2105 Location: Oz

tomk1960 wrote:

Until someone shows me empirical data or hard evidence to the contrary, I will always use DOT5 in my restorations.

Careful there Tom, that kind of talk could break the internet. Wink

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:57 am

DonR wrote:

tomk1960 wrote:

Until someone shows me empirical data or hard evidence to the contrary, I will always use DOT5 in my restorations.

Careful there Tom, that kind of talk could break the internet. Wink

Don, I think it's already busted!

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:42 am

ref: dot 5 debate, if folks get a wee bit twitchy about using this stuff, they will positively get their nickers in a twist with the following

for hydraulic clutches I use cooking oil Shocked

and when i'm stripping brakes and in need of pumping pistons out, I hate getting brake fluid all over the place, so I also use cooking oil for this - ps after you've spent an hr cleaning yir brake calipers, try wiping them with the same cooking oil - they come up nice and shiny with about 30 seconds effort - I am a lazy bugger at heart

CB1100F Joined: Feb 17, 2009 Posts: 2105 Location: Oz

What do you cook chips with, DOT3? 😂

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:25 pm

DonR wrote:

What do you cook chips with, DOT3? 😂

yi cook the chips 1st Wink