A little something I have been working on.

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:30 pm

Here's my version of an RSC deep sump. I'll be having Headless make the longer oil pickup with larger tube.

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:25 pm

I can only say what an old girlfriend told me once. THAT THING IS HUGE! Twisted Evil

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:35 pm

Sexual innuendo aside, having a deep pan like this only has positives and other than a Dry Sump set-up this is the way to go.

Captain

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2526 Location: UK

1100russ wrote:

I can only say what an old girlfriend told me once. THAT THING IS HUGE! Twisted Evil

Did you arrive to pick her up in a Kenworth then Russ Surprised

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2526 Location: UK

Very nice Jim..at least that keeps the Oil pickup nice and deep in the oil which is a positive on a race bike..Is that for your Yellow race Bike?

Keith

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:48 pm

krgood0 wrote:

Very nice Jim..at least that keeps the Oil pickup nice and deep in the oil which is a positive on a race bike..Is that for your Yellow race Bike?

Keith

Maybe Keith? I will need to test it first in a old motor. Scott brought up to me that AHM only used these for one race at Daytona and blew up so many motors that they ditched it and went Dry sump. It may have been the best they had right then? If they did have problems because of it? It may have been because they had no baffles in them? I don't know. The pan I grafted on here has a baffle at the front and the way I did the stock pan. There is now a large shelf over the front part of the deep sump. This in theory should trap the oil on braking and not sure how it will work on acceleration?
This is only a test. Ha.

I will probably need to build my own exhaust to clear the right side of the sump? I'm not sure just yet but it looks like it.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:44 am

Quote:

I can only say what an old girlfriend told me once. THAT THING IS HUGE!

Then the bed broke........

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:55 am

The old jet boat pans were "all deep end", they usually had hinged trap doors that would let oil run back toward the pickup on acceleration, but prevent the oil from rushing to the front of the pan on decel. This was a matter of life or death for the big (Oldsmobile) motors running 5500 RPM.

I would guess that the Daytona motors were sucking the oil out of the sump faster than it could flow back in, causing loss of oil pressure at high RPM. Just a guess.

Toonces

CB1100F Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 3217 Location: NE OHIO

toonces wrote:

The old jet boat pans were "all deep end", they usually had hinged trap doors that would let oil run back toward the pickup on acceleration, but prevent the oil from rushing to the front of the pan on decel. This was a matter of life or death for the big (Oldsmobile) motors running 5500 RPM.

I would guess that the Daytona motors were sucking the oil out of the sump faster than it could flow back in, causing loss of oil pressure at high RPM. Just a guess.

Toonces

I would think by lapping the cam caps could help the oil flow problem if it existed .

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:55 am

sure you've pondered over making your own dry sump kit ?
The rotors are the same shape as std pump - different thickness, you can make one of them by skimming a std one, the thicker one ? - SOHC as a source, maybe a KTM LC8 dry sump oil pump as a donor for the rotors ?
could you key x 2 std rotors together - dunno, but the bits are there as a source for consideration
the housings don't look that intricate to replicate, once you have the pump ID accurately machined
The sump is shallow enough to carve out of a bit of billet alloy

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:03 am

Didn't JeanLouis (hope I've remembered his name correctly ...) show us a home fabricated dry sump pump and pan set-up in one of his excellent posts some time ago?

Regards,

Max

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:37 pm

Hondamax wrote:

Didn't JeanLouis (hope I've remembered his name correctly ...) show us a home fabricated dry sump pump and pan set-up in one of his excellent posts some time ago?

Regards,

Max

nice one! thats more i've got to read up on
http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=64133&highlight=

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2526 Location: UK

Yes someone with access with to machine tools and a picture of a Honda RSC pump should be able to make a pump with ease, probably find some good rotors from a modern bike to use

Or an engineering company with a wire erosion machine should be able to cut some out, just need to remember the scavenge side needs to be greater than the feed side

Dry sump is the way to go as even with all the oil that is flowing round the engine and oil cooler lines you still probably have 75% or so or you oil capacity in the oil tank that is available to the pump at all times

Keith

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:05 pm

nlovie wrote:

Hondamax wrote:

Didn't JeanLouis (hope I've remembered his name correctly ...) show us a home fabricated dry sump pump and pan set-up in one of his excellent posts some time ago?

Regards,

Max

nice one! thats more i've got to read up on
http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=64133&highlight=

Thanks for finding the thread !

Regards,

Max

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:35 pm

Luckysox wrote:

toonces wrote:

The old jet boat pans were "all deep end", they usually had hinged trap doors that would let oil run back toward the pickup on acceleration, but prevent the oil from rushing to the front of the pan on decel. This was a matter of life or death for the big (Oldsmobile) motors running 5500 RPM.

I would guess that the Daytona motors were sucking the oil out of the sump faster than it could flow back in, causing loss of oil pressure at high RPM. Just a guess.

Toonces

I would think by lapping the cam caps could help the oil flow problem if it existed .

Id guess they were pumping the pan dry at WOT. The centrifugal force on the banks at Daytona plays havoc with drain back. I bet the trans was running in solid oil. Which is why Captain's reverse oiling of the trans keeps his engine alive at 12K. I would have loved to see what the oil temps were at Daytona. The trans probably churned the oil in nothing flat.

Lapping the cam caps isn't really an oil flow remedy. It's a cam flopping around in the journals remedy and will aid with harmonic issues that get set up in the springs. You dont really want to reduce the amount of oil in the spring pockets because the oil is what cools the springs.

Controlling the oil in the pan is crucial for a couple reasons. Windage is one, keeping the pick up covered is two. The more oil you can carry in the pan (wet sump) more more foaming control you have since it separates on top would be three. The trap doors in boat, drag and circle car pans keep the pick up covered in high G circumstances. Motorcycles, because they lean over, dont have the side to side issue as badly as cars and boats, but the fore and aft still needs attention. A doubled tray in the bottom can aid this. One over the top of the other, the rear being higher for oil to enter the lower portion. Oil pans are a thing all to themselves. The one we ran on the SuperStock boat was like $1400 just for the pan. Wet sump. Trap doors, windage tray, crank scraper ( I had at least 20 hours in that damn scraper alone), remote pick up...

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:10 am

G'day all,
back when I was using Kawasaki Z1 engines in speedway sidecars we used to have a hinged door in the sump to stop the oil running to the back of the sump under acceleration and allow it to run to the front under deceleration.

Chris.

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:40 am

Nifty, a good option for a well ridden street bike too. Very Happy

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:13 am

I too spent a lot of time cutting crank scrapers to just the exact profile.

This...

'This was a matter of life or death for the big (Oldsmobile) motors running 5500 RPM.'

...is curious and noteworthy, the only boat motors we ever had any trouble with were the 455 Olds ones. One guy only and he was so wormy that we attributed most of it to his style. Maybe not. ALL used deep pans but the Olds? Bearing problems and it didn't make enough power to warrant them.