What parts would members like to see reproduced ?

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:12 am

I'd like to gather interest on what hard or impossible
Parts members would like to see reproduced.

There's a lot of talent out there as you know.

Here's a few items for example..

1/ Euro clip on handle bars
2/ Moulded seat foam in standard and memory
Foam
3/ Euro Front indicator flasher brackets
4/ Front mudguard / fender
5/ swingarm chain guard
6/ speedo and tacho needles
7/ front fork top plastic caps
8/ euro rear grab rail mount rubbers and
Rail rubber
9/ hondaline accessories

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:27 am

I bet you could make some money reconditioning the primary drive shaft with a new bearing and cushions. The bearing is commercially available, just need to cut the slot for the retainer.

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:42 am

My votes:

- 900/1100 Oil Pumps
- CB1100R Cams

Regards,

Max

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:25 pm

http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=52438&highlight=stereolithography

http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=49240&highlight=unobtainium

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2527 Location: UK

Hondamax wrote:

My votes:

- 900/1100 Oil Pumps
- CB1100R Cams

Regards,

Max

Its a pity there do not seem to be any companys in the UK hard welding and reprofiling Cams like in the US, or making cams from new billiets, i expect all the origional Honda Cams were worn below service limits within a few thousand Miles from new

And yes oil pumps but these would be expensive to produce, unless you could find a company in China/Taiwan

Keith

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:58 am

Ready to install bodywork including tanks would be nice...

Twinstar Joined: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 259 Location: France

krgood0 wrote:

Hondamax wrote:

My votes:

- 900/1100 Oil Pumps
- CB1100R Cams

Regards,

Max

Its a pity there do not seem to be any companys in the UK hard welding and reprofiling Cams like in the US, or making cams from new billiets, i expect all the origional Honda Cams were worn below service limits within a few thousand Miles from new

And yes oil pumps but these would be expensive to produce, unless you could find a company in China/Taiwan

Keith

There's a company in France (not too far from UK) who do that : http://www.techniprofil.com/

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:40 am

I would like to see rearsets produced for these bikes... good looking ones....

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:35 pm

What I would to see reproduced are the power levers for clutch and brake. These things are harder to find than Wombats.

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:42 pm

This has some promise - of course depending on price. Maybe a group adventure of sending 10 -15 sets of worn cams, having them built up to spec or a little more Wink

then a durable coating such as hard chrome - nitride so they never wear. Just a passing thought . .

http://www.techniprofil.com/

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:03 pm

krgood0 wrote:

Hondamax wrote:

My votes:

- 900/1100 Oil Pumps
- CB1100R Cams

Regards,

Max

Its a pity there do not seem to be any companys in the UK hard welding and reprofiling Cams like in the US, or making cams from new billiets, i expect all the origional Honda Cams were worn below service limits within a few thousand Miles from new

And yes oil pumps but these would be expensive to produce, unless you could find a company in China/Taiwan

Keith

Keith,

Don't Kent Cams offer that? I've seen others advertise as well.

Regards,

max

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2527 Location: UK

Hi Max
I believe Kent Cams used to reprofile your cams by grinding the base circle down and then you use thicker shims, should not think you could remove more than about .5mm from base circle and most F cams have more than that worn off lobe so no real gains

Not sure that they hard weld cams

I might drop them a email and see what they can offer

Keith

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Oh for fuck's sake. I just typed up my list & this laptop DUMPED it. I'll get back to you on this. But I've got about a hundred items ya'll might think are worthy....

-S.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:19 am

I'd like to see engine covers and crash/tipover parts.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:20 am

Brake Stays
Ignition Covers
Fork Tube Protectors
Tail Light Tuck Bracket and Lens Kit
Piston Rods

Dave

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:51 am

Does the plastic windscreen for the bikini fairing?

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:54 am

PLATE, TUBE GUARD (NOT AVAILABLE) 11618-MA3-000

From a different member's post.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:38 am

1100 cylinders would be nice.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:40 am

I think metal gear works makes an oil pump kit.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:54 am

silversurfer1050 wrote:

Does the plastic windscreen for the bikini fairing?

Yes, my brother (CBX-tras) and I looked into this almost 6 years ago and you can read about it here:
http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=52438&highlight=
Be sure and read the last 8 postings in the thread. But the main idea is here:

"Recently, I had an injection molding shop price out what we call "tools" to mold the fairing and the meter cover "exactly" as Honda made them. No cutting corners, no compromises at all to be authentically correct. The only difference is that I would mold them in better materials that weren't available back in '83. No cracking, weathering or fading.

The meter cover mold cost WITHOUT the design time factored in was $59,000. The 1100F fairing was $100,500 and just for giggles, I had them price out the grained fuse cover panel by the ignition switch, it was $65,000. All of these have a minimum run of 200 parts each. They calculated [an additional] $60,000 in design time for all 3 parts.

The part costs were relatively cheap: $23.29 fairing (no paint, raw), $8.34 meter cover, $6.15 fuse panel cover.

The molds would be ready to run in 12 weeks after the designs were approved.

Does anyone want to chip in? Just let me know, I'm anxious to get started."

In all that time no one has pre-ordered any of the parts mentioned, so it does not appear to be much of a market for them. Say the MOQ was for the meter cover (windscreen) was 500. That means The breakeven cost to produce would be about $150 each - with NO mention of profit.

Questions:
1) Do you know 500 1100F riders that would preorder the part?
2) What do you think would be a fair profit margin per part for getting this part reproduced?

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:26 pm

As my brother said, there isn't enough interest to reproduce the (mostly) US only bikini fairing and meter cover so, they're out for me.
..........................................
Commentary:
The majority of folks just don't know what it takes to bring a product to market, any product. You'll need (among others) money, a CAD design, tooling, quality control, purchase various components, materials, packaging and talented people to make it all happen. You'll need a production facility that is will to do short production runs. And more money, usually LOTS of it to get the program off the ground and running.
I've done this and consider many products to produce or re-produce but I won't move forward on anything if someone else is already doing it, or with low volume with no change of recovering my investment.
...........................................

That said, I AM in the first phases of re-producing primary shaft dampers and rear wheel dampers (fits all F bikes and 6 cylinder CBX's).
These 2 items are moving forward and coming soon to a website near you.

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:52 pm

Both of you brothers are so right - many people don't realize the cost of tooling up just for prototypes. Where I work, we design and manufacture semiconductors. The average chip takes 18 months to design, fabricate, modify, perfect, and qualify. Last year someone asked me if I could work with Smick to get some of his electronic gizmos laid out in silicon and put on a chip to reduce size and cost. Sure - as long as someone can come up with at least $100K to start!

That being said, I'm optimistic that CNC machines and 3D printing might make some of the items we want reproduced less expensive. There are a few items that I want to reproduce and these systems might be my gateway to pulling it off.

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:59 pm

OK gents, here's another question--------------

Due to my extensive background in plastic injection molding, it was mentioned to reproduce the adjuster knobs for the fork tops on 1100F's. Should be easy enough, right?

Well, no. Within the first few minutes of research, I discovered there are 2 versions, smooth top and indented top. Not a big deal as most of you wouldn't care which one I made. Except, on the smooth top versions the locating indentations on the reverse side are 90 degrees to the number 1 on the front. The indented top version is in alignment with the number one on the front.

So, while the knob would attach, on half, the numbers on the knob won't align with the marks on the fork tube for your settings.

Is this a big deal or not? I don't know. BTW, if I couldn't turn 500 pair in a year, it doesn't make a business case. This is complicated by the fact that these are only used on the 1100F.

I'd be looking for items that fit all F bikes to soften the blow.

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:19 am

The two caps are different part numbers. Purely from memory one ends in 611 the other in 670.
One fits the CB1100F only.
The other fits
VF1000F 1984
VF1000R 1984
VF750F
Maybe others.
I can't remember if the indent in the top was a manufacturing change or related to the par number. I have a few of the VF style caps so will be looking at how to convert the alignment to the CB1100 orientation.

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:16 pm

The Canadian (possible Euro spec too) 1100F is different than the 2 US models I have here in the shop.

So, at least on this continent there are 2 versions and the Canadian microfiche doesn't show a different p/n.

I'll research those other part numbers, thanks.

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:22 am

Just checked Aussie part list.
Au bike uses 51458-MG5-671.

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:10 pm

krgood0 wrote:

Hi Max
I believe Kent Cams used to reprofile your cams by grinding the base circle down and then you use thicker shims, should not think you could remove more than about .5mm from base circle and most F cams have more than that worn off lobe so no real gains

Not sure that they hard weld cams

I might drop them a email and see what they can offer

Keith

Google Joy Engineering or Phil Joy Camshafts.
He does hard welding & reprofiling in UK. I have had some Gsx cams & rockers arms done.
Nick

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:29 pm

I have become combersome:

http://www.widgetworksunlimited.com/0_015_Polycarbonate_24x24_Thermoform_Plastic_Pack_p/vf-24x24-polycarb-015.htm

They show a video of vacuum molding. They don't describe their mold making.

It looks like some type of really dense plastic form. It probably has enough mass that it doesn't heat up fast and melt like the sheet.

Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:44 am

For the grainy dash panel type of shit, might I suggest some type of SMALL scale prototyping copy methods? Such as what are used in the fine-scale modeling hobbies? People use dental amalgam to copy shit into styrene & resin all the damn TIME.

When you've got a good mould shape to work with resin, I don't see a problem with backing up that resin with some glass fiber weave.....

Just a brain-fart.

Now as for the CLEAR stuff - the prices you're talking about sound like they're "CELL CASTING" that one in acrylic using Aluminum or Stainless mould parts for rapid mass production.

I would try - again with the low tech moulds - make a plaster cast of either the inside or the outside surface of the thing, then heat up your own sheets of Plexiglas in the oven and drape 'em over the mould. Would be even better if you had moulds of both sides of the thing, such that you could use the concave one to press the hot sheet draped over the convex one. YEAH - you'll get a bunch of 'em with bubbles in 'em, but not all of the time.

Oh - silly me saying Plexiglas! This should all be done in impact proof polycarbonate plastics, as they're more shatter-proof, or at least less likely to leave a razor sharp edge after they've cracked!

Then again, I'm sure there are even BETTER plastics for these purposes nowadays.

Seriously though - you ask an engineer you're gonna get an engineer's answers. Forget that shit entirely!

It's like when I wrote to Gates Industries about a belt-drive for the DOHC Honda - they wrote back saying I'd need to kick in some $20,000 minimum just to design a new belt with the right tooth count and profile.

Like they'd never heard of using a non-standard final drive ratio, or changing the length of a swing-arm for that matter.

They've got a HUUUGE catalogue of parts, and they offer a custom collet to adapt all of their interchangeable smaller pulleys to any type of splined shaft - I guess if you're an industrial sized customer you can get their help with picking shit out. But if you're some poor schlub looking for around $300-$400 worth of parts, you can go fuck yourself. That's the impression I get anyhow.

But perhaps I should reconsider that - perhaps it's more like a sales call situation, where you should always kick up the idea of maximizing profits before any other possibilities are considered. On the premise that well, "the fish just might BITE"!

Maybe when all my other project shit is finished with, I'll take another look at their catalogues?

One really shouldn't have to MENTION a motorcycle, far better to give 'em the horse-power of the drive - give it to 'em in kilo-Newtons or whatever. I've heard that belts handle TORQUE very well, but that it's horse-power which kills 'em quicker - which is why they're so widely used in V-twin cruiser type applications. IMHO they've got massive applications in sports-bikes now that they've made some quantum leaps so far as Kevlar weaves are concerned.

But yeah - you'd THINK all you'd have to tell their sales people are the forces and stresses involved - motor output and speed should be sufficient - then the final-drive ratio, plus the length between axle and output shaft - plus a lil' bit about the suspension travel as relates to changes in belt-tension and drive-line length - I'm sure if you go with the strongest grade of belt they have on offer then all of THAT stuff will just be bullshit anyhow, and heck if you were super paranoid they have belt tensioner pulleys to go along with it all, so you could run one of them things if you're worried.

Either way it SEEMS, to ME at least, like it doesn't have to be that complicated! If they had half a brain they'd be marketing their belts as an alternative to chains and sprockets all over the damn map. When you think about it, chains and belts aren't all that different in terms of how the numbers add up - assuming the same size of teeth as the chain you'd wind up using pretty much the exact same numbers as before. But look at the chains themselves, there's a limit on what you can and can't use - there's a narrow range of usefulness which limits the range of products which they have to offer.

Especially considering a custom collet for your output shaft meaning the pulleys are all standardized such that you don't NEED a different version for each model of bikes - THAT simplifies the range significantly. Gotta wonder if you couldn't just as easily have 'em broach that same cut into the pulleys themselves, for simplicity's sake - but one custom collet per bike means you're working with off-the-shelf product from that point forward, which is a really cool thing.

But yeah, ignore the splines of given chain and sprocket systems, the center boss hole and bolt-hole patterns for the rear sprockets - leave all that stuff out of it (because on a belt system apparently that's what you're gonna be able to do - I guess the rear wheels would have a custom adapter spacer too?) But yeah, ignoring all that other stuff, what's left? Tooth counts. A whole lot of different numbers - which at FIRST seems pretty daunting! Dunnit?

But there's really only so much of a tooth-count range on them belts - like you won't use one with under 75 teeth, or over 200. And the sprockets don't ever get much smaller than say, 15 teeth - twelve on a tiny little scoot motor perhaps. Rear sprockets in the range of 32-ish teeth on XS650 type of stuff, up around 50 if you're monkeying around with a weird wheel swap or something like that. Okay - 60 if you're talking about STUNT riding on a modified crotch-rocket I guess.

And yeah - it seems like on the belts we're actually talking about more numbers. If they're anything like the belt which I've got for the "KZ440LOL" here, which is (IIRC) a 125 or 126 tooth belt, a 22 tooth front pulley, and a 60 or 65 count rear. Got both of 'em. There used to be a "high performance" front pulley they offered with 23 teeth. But I guess they're all gone. Truth is, the only 23-count front pulley I've even seen a real picture of was for the KZ305CSR and GPZ305 (awesome lil' five-spoke wheels on the little GPZ, paint 'em gold and they're like Carozzeria Magnesium wheels. Well they LOOK cool anyhow - better than the seven-spoke mags on all the other KZs - too bad they're so damn skinny!) Really though, it makes me wonder whether there ever WAS a "high performance" front pulley for the 440 - guess I should cross reference any & all part #s people have mentioned....

Honestly though, even if the range of tooth counts DOUBLED because the teeth are half the size of rollers on a chain - even then, we're not talking about a whole huge amount.

Especially if, instead of mucking around with the full range of chain gauges - instead of trying to create an equivalent range for 525 gauge chains & sprockets on top of 530, 630, whatever the hell else strikes your fancy - how about maybe TWO ranges, tops? If you're gonna go down very much from that, might as well just cut the belts narrower, use the width as the determining factor for strength or applicability etc.

'Cause one of the major reasons to use a smaller roller chain with more teeth etc, the jarring forces as each roller catches onto and falls off of each new tooth in the mix, is no loner a consideration - the belt transmits power SMOOTHLY and doesn't shock-load the transmission repeatedly the way a chain's rollers do!

So yeah, cut 'em in different widths sure and I guess that goes for slicing off the end of the pulley log cake as well. Okay - so that's NOT how they build pulleys. But still. this works 'cause the chain type sprockets are already MADE in different widths. I'm just suggesting that the roller sizes wouldn't need a whole huge range for all the different size-classes & purpose-types they'd ALL be light enough for MX use, they'd ALL be strong enough for heavy-duty crotch-rocket use.

Guess it's a pain in the ass that you'd no longer use a master-link anymore though. Every bike would now have an "Endless Chain", like the original OEM chains on these DOHC fours were.

I mean - yeah I've got the spare belt for the KZ, but I think about fixing that at road-side, where you'd pop the whole damn swinger off the bike, engine mounting bolts, etc etc.

I expect we'll see a lot more of that type of thing in the future, on the electric bikes and all.

But consider for a moment how we all know that a chain-drive carries more power to the rear wheel than a SHAFT does - think of the CB900F versus the CB900C - even the extra WEIGHT is applicable, 'cause the belt and pulleys are that much lighter than the chain drive - But yeah they say a shaft loses up to 20% of the shaft horse-power on it's way to the rear wheel and the tarmac. Something to do with the number of BEVEL gears in the system. Which is to say, the inline four type of shaft bikes are a worse arrangement than the Goldwing type of stuff (like CX650T Turbo and GL1000 or their lesser European cousins from Moto Guzzi & BMW) - 'Cause say - a lesser, while also more expensive European version of inline-four with a shaft-drive such as an MV Agusta 750 America, OR lesser but still Japanese versions such as the KZ1100 Spectre type of shit, some of them others like XS1100 etc all of 'em inline fours with their transverse crankshafts and rear shaft drive, THEY'VE got the crank and axle running parallel but the shaft is perpendicular. Meaning a bevel gear at BOTH ends of the shaft-drive. On a CB900C or CB1000C as the idealized case in point. Whereas the GL1000/GL1100/GL1200 and their imitators at least have their shaft-drive parallel to their crank. Or slightly off of parallel, due to the angle of the swingarm etc.

Gotta wonder about the autos with the rear wheel drive how they've got the Cardan shaft with a rear differential which is supposedly chockablock FULL of little bevel gears all over the damn place.....

Whatever - that's THEIR problem. The point I'm making here, is that much as I'd LOVE to stick a belt-drive on a GL1000 it ain't meant to be. However, a CB1000C could donate it's motor to a CB750F without having to split the cases and insert the CB900F output shaft, so long as the custom pulley adapter could be hooked up direct to the motor output shaft before the secondary transmission even comes into play.

I'd love to see those secondary transmissions, as well as a lot of the older pre-unit transmissions from Brit-bikes and Harleys/Indians etc - run on ELECTRIC bikes down the line. Just to make it more feasible to stick a larger diameter electric motor into the bike's frame without it interfering with the swing-arm and chain-line width versus weight distribution etc etc. Wouldn't that be a cool thing to have in an electric bike? Just for shits and giggles? Popping wheelies?

Anyway yeah - the point I was making about BELT DRIVES. Yeah, for one - it would be cool to put an actual CB1000C on the Bol D'Or Classics starting grid, using a modified chassis with the swing-arm pivot relocated to a more forward position and some frame bracing all around it, to where the rest of the original frame would amount to a convenient place to hang some rear-sets off of the lower sub-frame loop - might be a good frame to stuff some of the CBX pro-link shit into there, I dunno. I guess a lot of those AHRMA racing classes require twin shocks, but we're not really talking about that. I'm talking about going all the way over to damn Europe to fight WWIII from the saddle of a CB1000C cruiser..... Well - at least it would be an upset! Probably still a lil' heavy. Thing is, the damn BELT DRIVE would do some cool shit for it. And hey - given that the KZ750B and KZ440LTD already HAD belts on 'em by 1980, you can't really say that it's too modern, can you? I mean - You can't, can you???

Whether or not you're RACING with the damn thing, it's about the power transmission to the rear wheel, being able to use some GRUNT which would otherwise be wasted in wrestling with that chain, creating a lot of heat no doubt, almost like a dragging brake pad when you think about it.....

'Cause where that SHAFT-DRIVE loses up to 20% of it's grunt, and ideally in the most perfectly tuned version under ideal circumstances let's say 10%-15%? The CHAIN meanwhile is more like 15% losses done badly, and 10% maybe 5% losses at the very best? Well, giving THEM that type of leeway, the BELT is gonna operate at worst with only 10% loses, more predictably 5%, and under ideal clean tuned perfectly-tensioned circumstances as high a transmission rate as like 98%-99% - and how does that add up when you're talking about a higher horsepower bike? I realize that not everybody's CB900F is making anywhere 100 horses. MINE'S supposedly an over-bore job. Mentioned in passing only AFTER I bought the thing - I really need to get in touch with the mechanic who was the P.O.'s P.O.

((((Yanno, a person really ought to touch base with his P.O. as often as possible. Bring 'em some clean piss, tell about your job interviews etc. Reassure 'em you're no longer associating with the losers who kept you from getting onboard with the DOHC-4 Honda program.....))))

I'd LIKE to think they put the 985cc Wiseco pistons in there. But it's probably more like the "one-size-over" pistons, or more like RINGS, being put in there after the bores have been cleaned up on a high wear motor. Gawd I hate to think what that would mean for the longevity of my CRANK.....

Seriously though, the fuckers stuck POD filters on the bike. One or the other of 'em. And yet, they DID leave it with the Cal-Fab swinger, the Wolf pipe, the DIY Tarozzi rear-sets. Stainless hardware and NOS shit from stem to stern. This ship was all brass and teakwood before AYE got me hairnds un 'im ... Aye mean 'ERR! Loverly loverly bike - not LUBBERDLY in the slightest. Ready so sail off on a seascape of asphalt. Mmmm. Kind of a grotesque image really, so much of the Earth being paved over with asphalt. The HORROR.... I suppose loving bikes so much is like a COPING MECHANISM that helps a person get to grips with this whole new cosmology where the ground is hard and lifeless underfoot....

Whatever. All of them extra horses though. Let's say you've GOT the over-bore innards in your motor. (Oh I hope I'm right about this!) AND you've got a high performance pipe on the bike. (Sheesh it turns out I've got one too - the WOLF - funny how I'd always made this argument with somebody else in mind!) and the super duper light-weight wheels - sticking 'em together "as we speak" here - and the Aluminum tank and the racing fairing and all that good shit. Check and check. Anyway, I suppose I don't have (to the best of my knowledge - one could hope and pray, though until the motor comes apart I can't speak to it - and once the motor DOES come apart this is what I'd spend the whole winter trying to do....

Say you've already GOT the ported & polished head - ceramic coatings on the pistons and valve heads, combustion chamber. The super-slick coatings on the cam surfaces, the WTF coatings all through the gear-box etc. I don't really understand all of that shit.

Can't do all of the oiling system mods I wanted to do, thanks to this damn super-tight Wolf exhaust that doesn't have room for a spin-on oil filter or a deep sump made from sandwich layers cut from CB750F sumps, though I guess the bigger cooler is going on pretty soon....

ANYWAY - "What do you get for the bike who has everything?"

Which is to say, once you've already done a bunch of the given mods to the bike, as they say - with each successive modification for each successive horsepower increase, the price goes up! So - for the 5% approximate horsepower increases you're gonna see from sticking a belt-drive onto the bike instead of a chain? What ELSE would you have to do to the engine to get an equivalent increase? And how much would THAT cost?

I mean, a good high performance pipe is gonna set you back up around three four hundred bucks. The cost of a new chain and sprockets plus that pipe probably adds up to around what a killer belt-drive system is gonna cost you. Less I'm sure - Especially if you're picking the components from a catalogue and assembling the whole deal yourself.

So it's gonna be a HUNT - however once the standard applicable parts numbers are figured out, listed here on the 'F-orum? THEN it's gonna pay dividends.

It was a no-brainer for the KZ - fact is, it's the main reason why I stuck with that model in the first place. Thinking of the kid and her friends complaining about chain grease all over their designer jeans & shit, that right there was the impetus. But the extra horse-power well it isn't something one can GET from a little KZ440LTD twin. Swapping out the WHEELS of course, that's the OTHER no-brainer for the 'LTD model ha-ha. Dunno how I got fixated on this heavy-assed 4LS drum hub, but the 16" rims and maxi-scooter tires seem like another good performance upgrade. And heck - I wanna put this drum on the scales up against a SOHC CB750K dual-disc wire-spoke brake system. INCLUDING the calipers and caliper hangers mind you. Sure, those things don't spin - but then again neither do the sides of the drum hub, the shoes and the shoe plates, linkages etc. Yeah, I'd LIKE to think those were all smart ideas for making the little twin go faster. If only it were a HONDA twin. CB500T - CB450K0 style of course! Or a CB350F SOHC-four! That would've been awesome.

Nowhere near as perverse though, as throwing time and money at a damn KZ440LTD the most maligned "Lady-Bike" & "Chopper-ette" of the whole era. Except perhaps the water-cooled version the KZ454 which followed after it. Ha-ha - even the KZ400LTD was slightly cooler in that it still had a kick-starter so a person could use a KZ400S motor which had no electric starter, no tachometer drive, just a stripped-down simplified light-weight version like the CL350 version of the CB350 motors.

Yanno, in JAPAN they made a KZ400 and KZ400LTD which was a FOUR cylinder, DOHC no less - a scaled-down or perhaps even de-stroked version of the KZ550 now THAT would've been one hot lil' bike. Doesn't fit these belt-drive parts. However, the GPZ650 or GPZ550 DOES fit the front belt-drive spline. So a custom swing-arm and a wheel swap on THAT baby and now we're talking. I ASSUME the KZ750B belt-drive used the same teeth, I'm pretty sure ... the wider belt from KZ440LTD might even be the same part number IIRC. So yeah, the conical rear disc hub, or the uber-heavy KZ1000LTD full-width (Honda style!) rear disc hub could be used, so this mythical GPZ based beast COULD utilize a rear disc brake. Not that I'd WANT it to, in all truth. Too damn heavy. Yet another consideration, is that this same GPZ motor of which I speak was ALSO able to squeeze into that KZ550 frame!

Which is to say, this mythical Japanese market short-stroke DOHC-four KZ400 project COULD actually work with my belt-drive and weirdo 16" 4LS drum wheels - it would just happen to have a GPZ650 motor in it, is the only 'caveat" heh-heh.

But the smart move would be to take that front sprocket, draw out a sketch of it's splines on paper, and start sketching all the other life-sized patterns from a bunch of other six-lug splines, or maybe even LARGER shafts which had a different count to 'em - overlay 'em on a light-table and see what all shapes & sizes that existing front pulley could be MACHINED to fit. Dunno if you'd have to broach it or what. Maybe a couple of broaches could be made from some dead old motor output shafts? Just a thought. Obviously you wouldn't just dick away at the thing with a hand-file, nail-file, etc. 'Cause you can't get the thing so much as a smidge off center!

But yeah, there could be PLENTY of different models these belts could work on. And given that there are actually a range of different pulleys for 'em - 22 23 & I think 24 for the front, while the rear can be either 50, 60, 65 or 66 IIRC - there's a good range in there to play with. And yeah that shorter ratio makes for a longer swing-arm if you're using the short belt it might come out within reasonable length. Then that shorter ratio might work well with some of these smaller rims & lower profile tires etc. Here I am, going with a 140/70-16 rear tire to replace the 130/90-16, I don't think it's worth doing the math, but I guess that's a slightly smaller wheel, which would give more or less the same damn speed when using the 22:60 ratio as say, the 22:65 on the taller profile tire.... Just saying.

A 22:50 though, well THAT type of ratio and longer swing-arm makes me think of something like an XS650 - 'cause the XS twin used some phenomenally small rear sprockets when compared to our DOHC-four type of stuff. It's just an off-hand example, but I'd bet it would work pretty good. I should look into the drive-line length and sprocket ratios on some of these KZ550 with GPZ650 motor swaps I keep hearing about. Every five years or so..... IIRC the GPZ had the longer swingers on 'em, longer than the KZ's - it wouldn't really NEED the KZ550 frame, although I do love me a tubular steel frame over a box-section frame of any type. Just for the vintage vibe it imparts.

Sorry for the rant and the tangent 'F-ellas. Just saying - you shouldn't always listen to those Hail-Mary SALES PITCH type of engineer's estimates!

What ya'll need to start looking into, are the small scale reproduction techniques used in a broader range of hobbies & interests. Not just the ultra-light aircraft builders & boat builders

(Hmmm- what's this here? BOAT cleaner! Now that'll git the job done" - "Let's Go To Prison")

But also the SCALE MODEL BUILDERS, fucking seamstresses & shit when you wanna replicate a seat cover or something.

And them dash panels man, you could make that shit out of just about ANYTHING - people would love to have that one made out of CARBON FIBRE wouldn't you think? Even if you're still gonna have the original texture to it, moulded off an original part etc, painted over with flat black and all that shit - people would still wanna have as much carbon in that fairing as possible.

'Cause hey - the CB1100R had carbon in it. Was that just in the CB1100RB, or was it the 'C & 'D models which used it?

Pretty damn early - I think of what all else was made from the stuff at that point in time, and it's all aerospace type of shit. Wings on jet fighters and the like. Formula one cars were getting into the stuff around about then.

Of course, it's nothing compared to the OTHER shit Honda was doing with it, on the NS & NR models - whichever of the V-four models it was which used the entire Carbon-Fibre chassis. FWS1000? RS850? I have no idea off the top of my head. Suffice to say, Honda was doing more than just a single bike fairing with it in those days.

Now as for those who would want it absolutely authentic? For THEM you could use the same mould processes like a double-sided mould from dental silicone type of stuff - like they supply with those "make your own dildo" kits. Maybe if you're lucky and your weiner is that small you might have some left over from the kit. Oh - wait.. Actually it filled up a cup didn't it? So the build-your-own pocket-pussy kits actually used MORE dental silicone stuff when you have a smaller weiner. The point being, THAT stuff could be used for a highly detailed mould that would pick up surface imperfections, like those little studded condoms that make it feel like you've got warts all over your pecker - the dashboard's wrinkled texture could come from that mould process, be replicated in a gel-coat for fiberglass, clear-coat for carbon-fiber, OR even an ABS plastic POUR, with two layers of a proper sandwich mould if that's how you wanna swing it. Perfect thickness. Perfect texture. That old familiar feeling. And yeah with the left-over mould material you could make some BIKE parts while you're at it.

Then again it may have been originally wrought from a heated sheet of ABS plastic which was pre-rolled with it's texture in place?

Yanno - the true LUXURY version would be made from alloy but then overlaid with a textured vinyl or better yet FULL GRAIN LEATHER - like a Bentley or Rolls Royce....

If it WAS from a textured ABS sheet, it's entirely possible that a plastics supplier might still have some sheets around. And then you'd lay that stuff overtop of a convex mould, with the textured surface up? Could have even been a concave mould with the texture laid inward, but with temperatures still low enough that the texture wouldn't distort.

ME I'd trust the fine-scale model hobby RESIN CASTING methods above all else. Just 'cause it would give you the best surfaces and details. Light weight too. Gotta wonder if the show judges could even tell the difference, once you've got it painted correctly.

The Plexiglas/Lexan-Polycarbonate windscreen project could get a lot more interesting though. Might let you play around with the bubble curvature and make for a "double-bubble" version which bumps the wind blast up over the top of your head. Then again, being a bikini fairing we're talking about, you'd very possibly move a wind blast up from hitting you full in the upper chest, to hitting you in the forehead and giving you massive NECK strain! Still - would be awesome to play around with it. Maybe a double-layered one with an adjustable slot down low, so as to vent a little air to cool you off while still not enough to knock the sunglasses off your face when you shoulder-check....

Hey - if anybody's GOT a decent NOS windscreen they really oughtta just send the fucker off to GUSTOFFSEN'S or whatever they're called. Maybe they'd send it back with a couple of early prototype copies as a thank-you for the favour?

Sometimes playing along with the big dogs is the right play 'cause it means getting reproduction parts out there to the people who need 'em - nobody could pull this shit off at a profit. Not accounting for their own TIME and ENERGY for kripe's sake. I guess it just boils down to whether you feel better about making 'em for cheap for friends who pay you for the materials, or sending their business on down to the folks who could build 'em quick and right but charge a more appropriate price for the things.

But hey - if you can figure out how to make the things for cheap using your own oven and a plaster of Paris mould, with non-stick cooking spray & shit like that, and pump 'em out cheap AND it's still worth the effort, then by all means - all power TO you!

Not a lot of shit like that. I suppose there are some pretty decent mods folks are doing here on the site, which are working well and cost effectively. Like the Yamaha R6 starter clutch mods, the sump oil pick-up screen mods ... I guess he found new stainless tubing but I haven't heard whether the rest of us have replaced his original vacuum cleaner yet ha-ha.

If every damn one of us could figure out just the one part, we'd be able to build entire friggin' BIKES between the whole 'F-orum membership.

It's when somebody goes more general, doing parts basically per order - like JJAM over there - now THAT guy's gonna be busy until the day he croaks! Gotta whole bunch of projects for him, $$$ burning a hole in my pocket. Got so many other fish to fry right now, I guess it's on the back burner until he seems a little less busy. But yeah, we're ALL looking at it the same way I'm sure - we all wanna bug the guy for SOMETHING.

But yeah - just saying - IF you can whip up some reproduction parts at home on a small scale, and you're willing to keep at it and make 'em for the rest of the group? That's just about the most awesome bike project stuff ANY of us are doing around here!

I'M working on some DIY side-covers here, 'cause the CB1100R gas tank leaves the OEM side-covers without any attachment point for the front corner. Which is why they did the CB1100R seat pan the way they did.

So yeah I've got wood and clay and gauze and drywall compound - looking around for some proper cast plaster or plaster-of-Paris better still, so haven't whipped up any moulds yet. Working on a couple different shapes, was thinking a proper triangle for the CB450K0 style of the "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" thing, and also more of a rounded bubble like the CB750K1-CB750K2 design, I think that's more where I wanna go with it, whether that's "authentic" to the Bol Bomber thing or not. Same decision on the seat cover, to go with the "Duck-Tail" CB750K0 Sand-Cast thing rather than the simpler more boring CB450K0 seat cover. CB92 type of stuff sure looks interesting. I've written a lot of e-mails seeking somebody who can make me the same "Duck-Tail" seat cover in RED - for both a CB92 type of vibe AND for the CB1100R thing at the same time. Would like a two-tone seat cover to emulate my old C70 Passport scooter even! Heck I've got all sorts of ideas for seats I might just have to change 'em out like shoes or some such. But yeah, I''ve found a guy who does all the crazy colours, who just doesn't have that pattern of heat stamp - I've found people who do the reproduction seat covers but not in red, of course. And I found a guy who agreed to do it but who hasn't got back to me on it. Looks like I'll have to purchase a spare black one, and send it off to the guys who do all the wacky colours and real-tree cammo & shit. Then WAIT a long while. Ugh. Hopefully they'd gimme some credit after I've shipped 'em a perfectly good cover to tear apart? For their own future business that's gonna skyrocket once the SOHC people see my new seat? FUCK.....

Reminds me of the OTHER kinky thought I had, which the SOHC folks would go nuts for. Alloy switch-pot clam-shells, housings what have you - THROTTLES from the SOHC series, but converted to the DOHC "Sport-Kit" spec, via two lumps of TIG weld blobbed all over the top, then drilled and tapped for the CB900F Euro-spec cables to work with. Yeah I know there are aftermarket throttles that point wherever you want 'em to - I BOUGHT a couple. I just didn't like the way they fit. Cuts off grip space, forces your switch and master-cylinder to move to the left or your grip to go to the right. Even if you cut off that hunk of the existing switch housing, you don't get it all back 'cause the aftermarket pieces have the screws to the left of the housing, and then you'd lose part of the "RUN-STOP-RUN" lettering. That ain't no good.

One MORE mod for the handlebars - I'd like to find out whether the DOHC rectangular front brake master-cylinder reservoir could be switched out for a ROUND reservoir be it the SOHC version or whether that's the GL1000 type or the rear reservoir from the mid-series GL1000 rear reservoir (the built-in reservoir from rear master-cylinders which nevertheless still uses a separate plastic drum) OR the European-market smaller SOHC master-cylinders like CB400F/CB350F etc, which are a shorter version of the CB750 Euro-spec master-cylinder with it's plastic reservoir. I dunno.

Yeah, it would mean that just the two screws in the center and the o-ring are holding the thing together, and the cap would be threaded onto the plastic. And then I'd probably wind up carving off the extraneous bits like the threaded holes where the rectangular reservoir's cap is screwed down, I'd try to carve it down to resemble something more of an earlier SOHC or Fontana aftermarket type of master-cylinder.

The reason I don't wanna just go with the GL1000 perch, is the CB750C (smaller diameter version as opposed to the CB900C etc - preferable for a better ratio or so I surmise from the "Vintage Brake" site's stats) Ahem - yes the 'C-ustom models and some of the CB1100R perches I've seen, they are TILTED - there's that huge thick block of material I sure hope it ain't heavier? LOOKS like it is - the perch has it's clamp and it's lever tilted downward to work with a clip-on or clubman type handlebar, while the reservoir still sits LEVEL. GL1000 and SOHC reservoirs don't have this.

The round reservoir is as much meant as a genuflection to the Frerddie Spencer '82 Daytona Champion AMA Superbike "CB750F" 1032cc monster, as it is a tip of the hat to the SOHC Café Racer type of shit I've been doing.

Fact is, once I've got the DOHC outfitted with the GL1500 fork and the PC800 "hub" modified to wire-spokes, the Faux 4LS drum hub with shrouded 286mm rotors that I've been fantasizing about? I'll wanna use a hidden master cylinder down under the top yoke, with a cable type brake perch on the right hand bar. Now THAT would be awesome. Even more awesome if it could be an inline box, really small like, resembling one of these little line-splitter boxes they make for the 4LS brakes. Or perhaps even USING one of those, with two tiny little master-cylinders down on the TRAC mechanism, heck bolted right onto the damn calipers themselves. Crazy I guess. Probably just as simple to build a hydraulic perch with a hidden reservoir up in the clocks or the fairing etc, where it only LOOKS like a regular cable type perch, but with a hydraulic cable coming off the end. With an over-sized knurled-edged NUT tightening 'em together like an old's-cool cable adjuster.

For my CLUTCH perch I've scored these old MX bits, NOS aftermarket they're called "Star-'Justers" I dunno who all has heard of 'em? They're a four-point nut which you can tighten without taking your gloves off. And I've got them to tighten some reproduction early Honda cable holders which were also four-point, which I chucked up in my drill and carved down to size to work on the double-cable perch for the Suzuki 4LS drum on the kid's "KZ440LOL".

They're what all the modern MX adjuster nuts copy, the "Moose Engineering" products are all a modern version of 'em done up in CNC-milled Billet. But MINE are stainless steel through and through.

It's pretty neat looking so I got some extras an had one left over for the Honda to use as well. Three adjusters on the KZ just one on the Honda - but I was thinking I'd like to figure out some type of "stunt mods" like a little stubby lever on the left hand which hooks up to the rear brake. At least, on the KZ it might be a good safety feature - though I don't picture the KZ pulling too many wheelies with it's heavy front end. Well, lighter in the sense that the seven-spoke 19" front mag wheel is gone, but the single disc replaced by the 4LS drum, the 33mm fork replaced with 39mm CB900F fork, I guess I'll have to put the whole damn original front end on the scale and measure the new one all up when it's done for comparison. Meanwhile pretty much any & all parts are going on the scale just for the heck of it.

ANYWAY yeah that perch thing would really help, if I knew whether or not to blow money on the master-cylinder rebuild kits. Or even the 'C type perch in the first place.

'Cause the KZ440LTD perch is rectangular, but it's also the correct leaning type for a tilted down bar - again from a cruiser application but still appropriate for a clip-on bar as opposed to a low "Super-Bar" or "superbike-bar" & broomstick handlebar applications, which the OEM perch on the Honda seems best suited for. The KZ perch is also the same or close to it, smaller diameter like the CB750C and early CB900C versions. Verify my calculations and all, but I've heard that the reduction in master-cylinder piston diameter is a GOOD thing for these particular OEM calipers - the twin-piston floating type?

So yeah I've already GOT a pair of KZ perches, I'd be happy to hang on to THEM (no pun intended) if I'm just gonna wind up with a rectangular reservoir anyhow.

I was also picturing some messed up seized rusted old SOHC solid Aluminum type North American brake perches, just cut down and spun on a lathe so that THEY could pop into the existing master-cylinder hole. I guess the best place to find the specs on paper would be to compare the part numbers on the O-rings for those reservoir rebuild kits. However, I haven't found 'em listed separately YET....

Gotta be SOMEBODY here who's got both SOHC and DOHC bikes, or an early GL1000 on the side? Gawd I LOVE me an early GL1000 what a bike! The '76 Bol D'Or saw the one and only Goldwing entered into endurance racing - top shelf racing anyhow - with a monocoque alloy frame. DAMN what a bike! Would love to make a wire-wheeled replica of that thing based on a GL1500 now THAT would be one hell of a project. Guess it'll have to wait until I'm done with the DOHC-four, with DOHC-ing around being an 'F-er - then after I whip up a VF Sabre based replica of the CZ type 860 I day-dream about that one all the damn time..... Already got enough on my plate, obviously - bit off more than I can CHEW.

But yeah - somebody around this 'F-orum has gotta know about those reservoirs, whether they're compatible? Maybe it could even be fudged with some new screw holes tapped into the thing, or maybe even a heavy-duty extra-thick O-ring to plug up too big of a hole?

I'd really like to figure this one out! Would love to use as many CB750C parts on the bike as possible. A FRAME perhaps? Probably the best one for insurance purposes. Less association with "spirited riding" than the "Super Sport" designation. Just a little less likely to raise eyebrows when sneaking the big motor through the DMV and cheaper insurance based on a serial # declaring it as a "mere" 750.....

It would be cool to use the same GL1000 parts as Spencer's bike had, but if I could come up with an even BETTER version from off-the-shelf Honda bits, then that's where I wanna go with it!

Period-Correct all the way though. Ya'll sticklers for originality, the "purists" who want them dash panels to look like they rolled off the factory floor last week, for whom a painted carbon-fibre reproduction would feel to ... gauche? Well - I guess you ain't gonna dig my bike! And that makes me kinda sad, to tell the truth. 'Cause I really DO want the thing to be somehow original. Even if only in the sense of some alternative universe version of Honda street-bikes, or a mythic "coulda-been/SHOULDA-been" race-bike....

-Sigh.

Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:14 pm

To quote:

"Just a brain-fart."

What exactly have you made for mass production anyway?