Any AMA vintage racers?

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:07 am

More questions..........
It's been awhile since I've been to AMA vintage days at Mid Ohio and I didn't realize that the AMA and AHRMA have split. I have been concentrating on AHRMA rules with the intention of running my track bike in the race at Mid Ohio but I should be using AMA rules. So I look at AMA's rules for the pre 84 superbike heavyweight class and it only talks about push rod (lol) and SOHC engines. Doesn't mention DOHC engines at all. Does anyone know if they are allowed? At least in pre 84 heavyweight. I know I could run it in pre 88 but thats not where it should be. And I also know Honda wasn't the only manufacturer running DOHC in the late 70's. AMA's rules are pretty ambiguous compared to AHRMA's. Dennis has helped me out with AHRMA's rules (thanks again dude!) but doesn't run AMA. Anybody running a DOHC F in AMA?

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:07 am

While I don't run in Vintage Superbike, I do race with AHRMA. The AMA uses, from what I can tell, a mix of AHRMA and WERA rules and classes. The AMA promotes the Mid-Ohio races but they are actually run by WERA under the AMA's sanction. Chances are if your bike is AHRMA legal you'll find a class to run in. If you haven't already checked, the AMA's website will have all the info you need.

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:47 am

Yep. Talked to AMA today and they sent me to WERA. The guy (Shawn) was already gone for the day but I'll talk to him tomorrow. WERA's rules for the super heavy weight class are much more open than AHRMA's. Might not be as competitive but might be able to do the build I want lol. AHRMA's rules wouldn't let me......

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:27 pm

What do you plan on doing to your bike? Looks like the best starting point is a 900F.

AHRMA and WERA have similar engine displacement limits 1025cc, carb restrictions in AHRMA. There are few limits in WERA suspension, wheels, tires and brakes for Vintage 5, 6.

USD forks to 43mm, mono shock, 3-1/2" and 5-1/2" rims, slicks allowed, 4 piston calipers, non of these mods are allowed in AHRMA.

WERA Rule book chpt 11

The VRRA in Canada have their big race at Mosport in August, similar track to Mid Ohio, with the price of gas and the Canadian dollar at record lows it would be worth the drive.

Build rules are closer to AHRMA, 1155cc max, un restricted carb size (no flat sides), 3-1/2" and 4-1/2" solid spoke rims - CBR F2 style, DOT racing tires (no slicks), 41mm forks (no USD), twin shocks, twin piston calipers, floating rotors, class is Period 3 Heavyweight.

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:21 pm

jkotsi wrote:

What do you plan on doing to your bike? Looks like the best starting point is a 900F.

AHRMA and WERA have similar engine displacement limits 1025cc, carb restrictions in AHRMA. There are few limits in WERA suspension, wheels, tires and brakes for Vintage 5, 6.

USD forks to 43mm, mono shock, 3-1/2" and 5-1/2" rims, slicks allowed, 4 piston calipers, non of these mods are allowed in AHRMA.

WERA Rule book chpt 11

The VRRA in Canada have their big race at Mosport in August, similar track to Mid Ohio, with the price of gas and the Canadian dollar at record lows it would be worth the drive.

Build rules are closer to AHRMA, 1155cc max, un restricted carb size (no flat sides), 3-1/2" and 4-1/2" solid spoke rims - CBR F2 style, DOT racing tires (no slicks), 41mm forks (no USD), twin shocks, twin piston calipers, floating rotors, class is Period 3 Heavyweight.

I was hoping to hear from you lol! Yea, I've checked all the different rulebooks. WERA governs the races at Mid Ohio for Vintage Days, but do they use their rules or AMA's? Like you said WERA's (V5) are very open, AMA's don't even mention a DOHC motor! I got to speak with the guy at WERA to find out what rules are in effect.
Mosport in August huh? You got me thinkin'.........

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:55 pm

I couldn't say for sure which set of rules are applied at Mid Ohio, I don't remember seeing anything close to WERA specs as a heavy weight Super Bike.
Best to call and get first hand info.

I am putting together a CBX to AHRMA specs, had to make a few calls to confirm what is acceptable, turns out less than my interpretation of the AHRMA rules.

If you are thinking Mosport, make Friday part of the plan, track practice is $60, 2hr endurance race is $180/team (minimum 2 riders), weekend is $155 for first race (heat on Sat and final on Sun), $60 to bump up to a second race (heat and final). That should equal about a 20% discount in real dollars.

Dave Crusell use to make it part of his season, hooked on IoM now, good numbers on the grid. Dave is the USA team captain at Phillip Island this weekend racing a TZ750.

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:12 pm

Starting with an 82 900f. 1000c motor (978 actual). Wanted to use an R tank. AHRMA doesn't allow it. WERA seems to. Going to start out with stock forks (race tech valves). Depends on what rules are in effect for wheels, brakes and swingarm. Superhawk forks are 41mm. I know they are damper rod but I've had good luck with them using race tech springs and valves. They are a good length for swapping to F's and CBX's (close to stock). Thinking about a braced CBX pro link swingarm. AHRMA talks about stock or available at the time (aftermarket, but you can make a replica) and I can make a pro link swinger look like a cal fab pretty easy. Need to get measurements so I'm not lengthening wheel base much.

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:07 pm

Sounds like a good package. The tank can be switched with races, R tanks are good in VRRA. I don't think there is so much advantage with 4 piston/SS rotors vs 2 piston/cast iron rotors. Lockheed, Grimica and Brembo can be as effective as Nissin 4 piston price usually favours the Nissin.

The Pro Link is acceptable stock or braced in AHRMA.

Todd Ruston races his CB900F with F2 rims, DOT race rubber, 39mm forks, CB900 brake calipers, calfab arm and Ohlins shocks. Ran a 985 Wiseco kit, 31CR's, total loss, shim over bucket, Bassani pipe, likely some porting, he claims around 100hp. His times were in the 1:41's from memory, finished second to a big HP Katana. Your build will be very competitive. For comparison, Dave Crussel runs his TZ750 around 1:36.

Todd is coming back with a bigger engine for next season.

Sorry Todd, 1:37.889 is the correct time. The race winner Tim Ruhl's fastest lap was 1:37.825. So I can expect to see you Honda on top of the podium next season?

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:57 pm

jkotsi wrote:

I couldn't say for sure which set of rules are applied at Mid Ohio, I don't remember seeing anything close to WERA specs as a heavy weight Super Bike.
Best to call and get first hand info.

I am putting together a CBX to AHRMA specs, had to make a few calls to confirm what is acceptable, turns out less than my interpretation of the AHRMA rules.

If you are thinking Mosport, make Friday part of the plan, track practice is $60, 2hr endurance race is $180/team (minimum 2 riders), weekend is $155 for first race (heat on Sat and final on Sun), $60 to bump up to a second race (heat and final). That should equal about a 20% discount in real dollars.

Dave Crusell use to make it part of his season, hooked on IoM now, good numbers on the grid. Dave is the USA team captain at Phillip Island this weekend racing a TZ750.

Does this mean I should look for you on a CBX at some AHRMA event somewhere, sometime? Smile

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:32 pm

Right now the plan is to passenger on a sidecar at Barber, if the CBX survives the season I will bring it to race.

Daytona is a week later, I haven't figured out how to convince my wife this would be a great holiday. Palm trees and the beach?

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:33 pm

The older we get the faster we were, LOL.

I posted the wrong times from last season.

Todd was at 1:37.889 fastest lap, the race winner Tim Ruhl's was 1:37.825 at Mosport. Tim is he number overall one plate holder for the VRRA based on his racing from 2014.

You can see the race final below:

P3 Heavy Final

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:39 pm

jkotsi wrote:

Right now the plan is to passenger on a sidecar at Barber, if the CBX survives the season I will bring it to race.

Daytona is a week later, I haven't figured out how to convince my wife this would be a great holiday. Palm trees and the beach?

You've got a few days between Barber & Daytona. You can do a sales pitch about a wonderful couple of days on the beaches of Florida and throw in a small thing like racing at Daytona... (If you go to Daytona, gear to the moon to protect your engine.)

My wife pretty much declines to go anywhere with me anymore if going racing is the reason we're travelling. She's shared with me that other than Barber, all racetracks are essentially the same and other than being loud and boring plus suffering through a couple days of pretty much being ignored during daylight hours there isn't anything for her to do. That's why she declined to go to Phillip Island...

Fool her once (she actually went to most all of my races one season) shame on me. Fool her twice - it just isn't gonna happen. She's not a fool. Smile

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:27 pm

Just spoke to an old friend who used to race at Mid Ohio Vintage Days and he says WERA rules at Mid Ohio. Awesome! Think I can do my original build plan now. MUHAHAHAHA!

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:02 am

WRONG! WERA officials "officiate" the racing. AMA's are the rules they go by. No wonder none of you guys go there. What a pain in the ass! My friend stopped racing there because of this.

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:25 pm

Build to AHRMA rules and you should be able to race anywhere. It may not be exactly the build you want but should still get around the track well.

Looks like if Barber goes well (I don't break something) there is a chance at Daytona. A rev limiter and tall gearing are on the list.