Building a race bike.

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:39 am

Been keeping track on fb. Thats where I saw the frame welding pics! Forgot til I read your post....

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:56 am

All sounds great Jim! Really happy for all the great stuff going on with JesBuilt and the race bikes and the IoM engine and...and...and...lots going on with you, very good!

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:50 am

OK here are some up to date pictures.

360 degree oiling that feeds the big end of the rods and lets more oil flow to the mains as well.

Used a set of 1100 rods and 70mm 1100 pistons to figure out my deck height and rod length. I can use 1100 length rods and move the pin up .030" and then with the 1.5mm oil rings and .7mm sealing rings, I will have enough room to move the whole stack upwards. This saves me on the aftermarket rods that I will order on Monday and my pistons will be ordered soon as well.

Here are the Windage windows as per Brents instructions and clearance that he told to maintain.

That's all I got for now.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:33 am

Lookin' good!

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:20 pm

Magic windows! Mmmmmmm good stuff.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:13 pm

OK so here's the deal guys.

I really feel stupid but I learned my lesson. When I told myself that I could do this bike in 2 months time, I never thought about how long it takes for custom parts to be made. I talked with a guy from Totalseal and found that no 70.20mm rings are available but 70mm are. This means that I need to send the RSC barrels away to be Nicasil coated to bring them back to 70mm and they have to have the pistons to do the job. I just don't have that kind of time for this season.

OK had to scramble and do something different. I have thought of every combination that I can and I decided to go with a 750 based motor with 67.5mm pistons and new sleeves. That's the best that I can do and still get Dennis a bike by April 11th.

It will still get Brents head and all of my other goodies so at 890cc it is down 4% from 930 that I was shooting for with the biggest draw back being No custom dome on the piston to match the head. I'm really bummed about this but it is what it is. I will still build the 930 motor as soon as all of the parts come in.

Anyway now you are all up to speed on why I bought the 890 kit from ebay.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:21 pm

I was wondering about that...
Langcourt does great work that's who we use.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:31 pm

I am not up on all the parts you have acquired so far but wouldn't a 900 based motor work. 67.5mm pistons, 60mm de-stroked crank, same 17m rods with custom pistons, 859 vs 887 but your 900/1100 parts should carry over.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:45 pm

jkotsi wrote:

I am not up on all the parts you have acquired so far but wouldn't a 900 based motor work. 67.5mm pistons, 60mm de-stroked crank, same 17m rods with custom pistons, 859 vs 887 but your 900/1100 parts should carry over.

I can do that as well but the 750 crank is much lighter and I will have the RSC rods that Motocanada is offering to me.
Going after Goliath with a small bore and Brents head. I have faith but will keep building the other motor and hopefully have it done and ship it to Dennis for him to put in the frame after I dyno test and set it up.

Lots of options and I went with the motor that the most done for now.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:31 pm

Cool, so a completely different motor, will you lighten the 750 crank?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:03 pm

Sounds like me Jim. I'm going all stock with the 1000c (doing all the oil mods tho) but next year.......Not gonna copy your 930 motor but gonna do one I've thought about building for 30 years lol. Do you have any tensioners left (1100/900)?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:32 pm

.
Yesterday I shared with Jim that I gave myself a year to build my first race CB-F. It took two full years.

The first two years of racing the CB-F resulted in a ton of debug work. I broke the cam chain (900F bow type) tensioner (2x), damaged a clutch basket (3x), started jumping out of 3rd gear (2x), a rod bolt (time for a new engine) (2x), spun a rod bearing (2x), broke a transmission shaft bearing and had my ignition fail (5x; 2x stock and 3x Dyna2000).

Most all the fixes I found on this website.

I'm looking forward to getting Jim's bike on the track! (no pressure...)

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:32 am

1100russ wrote:

Sounds like me Jim. I'm going all stock with the 1000c (doing all the oil mods tho) but next year.......Not gonna copy your 930 motor but gonna do one I've thought about building for 30 years lol. Do you have any tensioners left (1100/900)?

I have 1 900/1100 set up and one 750 set up left.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:20 pm

OK, I have the plan.

Brent called and pointed me in the right direction for the new motor.

750 cases, stock 750 stroke crank, New RSC rods (Thank you Motocanada), Wiseco 67.5mm pistons, mill the top of the cylinders by 1mm or so to get the deck height back to zero, .040" thick cooper head gasket and a .005" cooper base gasket, Brents head with Web 110 cams, shim under buckets and KMPI dual valve springs with CR35 carbs and a Yosh header with the collector in the center of the motor for ground clearance at full lean angles.

That's the plan.

I got the body work back from my painter. Its bright but a bit whiter then I really like. I didn't get the color that I wanted but I can always do it again. The frame is done and has been media blasted. The only things that still need welded onto it are belly pan mounting tabs and whatever I need to do for a battery box?

I ordered two Shorai batteries and the charger last night. There went another $463.00 with shipping. Shocked

Anyway, I got to get in the shop. Lots to do. I'm building the muffler today out of aluminum and one for JR from CBXtras plus a spare to sell.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:54 pm

JJam wrote:

I ordered two Shorai batteries and the charger last night. There went another $463.00 with shipping. Shocked

Jim, which Shorai batteries did you get? I tried running the 7AH battery a couple of years ago and it didn't last as long as the math said it would. I was going to try running them again this year with more batteries and a more frequent swap-out.

Dennis

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:42 pm

Dennis I went with Brents suggestion and ran the battery for a CB1100F. The model number is #LFX14L5-BS12 but I saw another that was 1lb lighter and had the same CCR rating. I didn't want to mess around. No time to experiment.

Jim

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:41 am

The batteries, charger and spare connection cable (just in case) came in today and I got some aluminum seat mounts made up. Plus got a good start on some AHM replica mufflers made up with a new style of muffler added to my list of parts that I sell.

Batteries, one will always be on the charger. I got the same as Brent uses which is what they sell for a CB1100F but I saw one for an 07/08 CBR1000RR that had the same CCR rating, was almost 1lb lighter and in a shorter package. I wasn't brave enough to spend this kind of money and experiment so if Brent uses it, that will do for me.

I'm trying to save weight, so since I don't need a gas cap lock. I removed the lock hinge and saved 4.6 grams. BTW here is a sneak peek of the color. Not as bright as I wanted but its on there. The seat is at the upholsters.

I also made some aluminum seat mounts and saved 9oz. these will be for sale once my waterjet is running later this summer.
I made these by hand.

I also got the peg mount's fab'd up and on the bike. The pegs are in the same location as Euro style foot plate's. This is what Dennis is use to and his knee's don't like to bend anymore then this. They are approx. 2" narrower on each side then the Euro plates and should give Dennis all the ground clearance that he needs?

Notice the left side peg boss. It is made to clear the frame and be lighter. The otherside landed in the stock bolt dent that is in the frame. This evened them out.

I wanted the pegs and mounts to look as 80's/oldschool as possible. These were some cheapo ebay rear sets from a GSXR600 and I didn't need all the adjusting plates. I don't like the curve in the pedals and will make different ones later but this will do for now.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:53 am

Nice pics Jim. Help me with the "boxed" section at rear bottom engine mount!

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:37 pm

1100russ wrote:

Nice pics Jim. Help me with the "boxed" section at rear bottom engine mount!

What do you want as for help, do you need the channel piece?
After welding this in, I would have rather just boxed in each side between the frame and motor and wouldn't have done the center portion as its just a heavier piece of steel then the two side would have been.

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2523 Location: UK

JJam wrote:

OK, I have the plan.

Brent called and pointed me in the right direction for the new motor.

750 cases, stock 750 stroke crank, New RSC rods (Thank you Motocanada), Wiseco 67.5mm pistons, mill the top of the cylinders by 1mm or so to get the deck height back to zero, .040" thick cooper head gasket and a .005" cooper base gasket, Brents head with Web 110 cams, shim under buckets and KMPI dual valve springs with CR35 carbs and a Yosh header with the collector in the center of the motor for ground clearance at full lean angles.

That's the plan.

I got the body work back from my painter. Its bright but a bit whiter then I really like. I didn't get the color that I wanted but I can always do it again. The frame is done and has been media blasted. The only things that still need welded onto it are belly pan mounting tabs and whatever I need to do for a battery box?

I ordered two Shorai batteries and the charger last night. There went another $463.00 with shipping. Shocked

Anyway, I got to get in the shop. Lots to do. I'm building the muffler today out of aluminum and one for JR from CBXtras plus a spare to sell.

Peace, Jim

That sounds like a good plan

Should be close on what you were going to do

I take it you are going to fit the 985 sleeves in a 750 cylinder and bush the small ends on the RSC rods

Be interesting to see what power it makes

Keith

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:08 pm

JJam wrote:

1100russ wrote:

Nice pics Jim. Help me with the "boxed" section at rear bottom engine mount!

What do you want as for help, do you need the channel piece?
After welding this in, I would have rather just boxed in each side between the frame and motor and wouldn't have done the center portion as its just a heavier piece of steel then the two side would have been.

Isn't that (boxed in on each side) what Brent did? I was looking at his pics the other night.........Being on 3rd shift sucks, but it's good for the research! Wink

Edit: Should have said "Helped me with the "boxed" in section.......Appreciate the offer tho!
beerchug

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:04 pm

1100russ wrote:

JJam wrote:

1100russ wrote:

Nice pics Jim. Help me with the "boxed" section at rear bottom engine mount!

What do you want as for help, do you need the channel piece?
After welding this in, I would have rather just boxed in each side between the frame and motor and wouldn't have done the center portion as its just a heavier piece of steel then the two side would have been.

Isn't that (boxed in on each side) what Brent did? I was looking at his pics the other night.........Being on 3rd shift sucks, but it's good for the research! Wink

Edit: Should have said "Helped me with the "boxed" in section.......Appreciate the offer tho!
beerchug

Correct, I box the sides in, not the centre as you are then stiffening the area between the top and bottom mounts and the swing arm pivot. Doing the centre is completely unnecessary as the engine cases themselves are doing that for you.
Coincidently when these bottom side areas are boxed you have a perfect area to use for inserting threaded "slugs" for attaching a belly pan.

Captain

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:12 pm

JJam wrote:

I also got the peg mount's fab'd up and on the bike. The pegs are in the same location as Euro style foot plate's. This is what Dennis is use to and his knee's don't like to bend anymore then this. They are approx. 2" narrower on each side then the Euro plates and should give Dennis all the ground clearance that he needs?

Mostly it's one side that doesn't bend well... Smile

Narrower is great too!

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:36 pm

Captain wrote:

1100russ wrote:

JJam wrote:

1100russ wrote:

Nice pics Jim. Help me with the "boxed" section at rear bottom engine mount!

What do you want as for help, do you need the channel piece?
After welding this in, I would have rather just boxed in each side between the frame and motor and wouldn't have done the center portion as its just a heavier piece of steel then the two side would have been.

Isn't that (boxed in on each side) what Brent did? I was looking at his pics the other night.........Being on 3rd shift sucks, but it's good for the research! Wink

Edit: Should have said "Helped me with the "boxed" in section.......Appreciate the offer tho!
beerchug

Correct, I box the sides in, not the centre as you are then stiffening the area between the top and bottom mounts and the swing arm pivot. Doing the centre is completely unnecessary as the engine cases themselves are doing that for you.
Coincidently when these bottom side areas are boxed you have a perfect area to use for inserting threaded "slugs" for attaching a belly pan.

Captain

You are a genius........

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:37 pm

DennisTheMenace wrote:

JJam wrote:

I also got the peg mount's fab'd up and on the bike. The pegs are in the same location as Euro style foot plate's. This is what Dennis is use to and his knee's don't like to bend anymore then this. They are approx. 2" narrower on each side then the Euro plates and should give Dennis all the ground clearance that he needs?

Mostly it's one side that doesn't bend well... Smile

Narrower is great too!

Dude. Looks like some of my carpentry work........

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:39 pm

Speaking of bellypans I keep seeing this have to have something in them to soak up so much oil. What do you guys use? Kitty litter won't work more than likely....... Very Happy

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:45 pm

Mostly the belly pan is just to contain the oil dump from catastrophic failure - plus it keeps all the parts right there for quick reassembly! The belly pan is usually just a pan with nothing in it although I've seen some two strokes run a mat in the bottom for some reason.

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:04 pm

DennisTheMenace wrote:

Mostly the belly pan is just to contain the oil dump from catastrophic failure - plus it keeps all the parts right there for quick reassembly! The belly pan is usually just a pan with nothing in it although I've seen some two strokes run a mat in the bottom for some reason.

I keep seeing it in the rulebooks (AMA, WERA and AHRMA).
Here's AHRMA's (strongly recommended)

Oil containment. Oil containment systems are required on all roadracing machines.
Oil containment pans on wet-sump engines must be designed to hold the capacity
of the engine sump with nominal reserve. Material used must be durable, fastened
safely, and removable for inspection, if required. The pan must have a retaining
dam at the rear. Two-stroke and dry-sump machines must use a pan with a minimum
capacity of one quart, or approved oil-absorbing material with a screen backing
and fastened securely. Oil-absorbing material, securely retained in the bottom
of the pan, is strongly recommended. All oil containment systems are subject to
approval by technical inspection.

AMA's (required)

Belly pans are required on all competition machines. The
belly pan should be constructed of a suitable material (i.e.
steel, aluminum or fiberglass) and be of a sufficient size
and depth to adequately cover the surface area of the
bottom plane of the motor and have the ability to contain
at least 3 quarts of oil. The belly pan must be affixed to
the chassis at a minimum of three points and must
contain an absorbent material created for the sole
purpose of containing oil. 2-stroke and dry sump
machines must use a pan with a minimum capacity of one
quart, or approved oil absorbing material with a screen
backing and fastened in a secure manner.

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:46 pm

1100russ wrote:

Dude. Looks like some of my carpentry work........

I had to laugh when I read your response. I saw another x-ray where they were holding the pieces together with a huge hemostat and there's a drill bit & drill partially in the x-ray. I asked the doc later about why they took that x-ray and he said they were checking the depth of the hole before they put the screw in.

Then I asked him what kind of cool drill they got to use in an operating room and he said "It's a Sears Craftsman drill made for medical use."

I have no idea if he was pulling my leg or not - pun not intended.

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:49 pm

DennisTheMenace wrote:

1100russ wrote:

Dude. Looks like some of my carpentry work........

I had to laugh when I read your response. I saw another x-ray where they were holding the pieces together with a huge hemostat and there's a drill bit & drill partially in the x-ray. I asked the doc later about why they took that x-ray and he said they were checking the depth of the hole before they put the screw in.

Then I asked him what kind of cool drill they got to use in an operating room and he said "It's a Sears Craftsman drill made for medical use."

I have no idea if he was pulling my leg or not - pun not intended.

Good stuff.....