New member CB900fz & CB1100fd

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Hi Everyone
I've made a few posts but not introduced myself properly yet. I was introduced to the forum by Mikerobpen from London when I bought a nice 900fa from him in the summer, top bloke. I actually wanted an fz and ended up finding one and selling the fa. I've now bought the 1100f sold on ebay here: http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=69586
I haven't had a chance for a good look over yet but first impressions are good. I'll post pics and further news when I get a chance. I think I'll need 1100f end covers as they both seem to be 900 parts, also mirrors, oh and a couple of hen's teeth! (uk expression of rarity, is it the same in the US??). I fancied the idea of having the first machine in the range and also the final development. The 900 I rode down to France in September, the 1100 is in Southampton until I get it running.
The article here was very informative: http://www.classicbikersclub.com/articles/2012-02/honda-cb1100f
I believe the bikes are for riding though and am after a good standard product but not pristine otherwise you would be scared to ride.
Although my name says I'm from the UK I actually live in the south of France where the weather is more conducive. CBFs are pretty rare on the ground here but I will be out with friends on a Laverda 750SS and a BMW GS tomorrow. I travel to the UK and worldwide a lot as I am a BA pilot when not playing motorbikes (or boats). The mid America auction in Las Vegas and Javits NY show are both on my calendar for January.
Anyway, will post again soon with pictures
All the best
Jonathan

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:22 pm

Hi Jonathan. You won't regret it, you will LOVE it. Good luck with your bike and if you have any questions, just ask us Very Happy

A lot of us have been there and done it and have the TShirt!!!

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Hi Jonathan,this forum is almost a must wen you have a CB1100F,like John say`s.
Have fun riding it,and you don`t have to watch the altimeter Smile

Wim

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2529 Location: UK

Hi Jonathan and welcome

The bike you have bought looks good, any questions you have you have found the best place for help, when i bought my Red/White 1100F it was registered as a 1986 model, I got a dating letter from the Honda Owners club and then got an age related number Y reg from the DVLA

Keith

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Many thanks chaps for all the good wishes.
John I've read your build thread, really good and you are clearly very capable. We come down to Jo'burg on the jumbo, and also Cape Town but not Durban. I see it's about a one hour flight from Jo'Burg, would you put the kettle on for a day tripper?
Wim, lot of hills round here perhaps the altimeter would be useful!
My in-laws live in Worthing Keith, fancy a ride and a half of shandy when I get the 1100 up and running?
I'm hoping to get a couple of days on it next week. I was going to take the carbs off and send them for ultrasonic cleaning. Meanwhile, new fuel in the tank, brake fluids. oil & filter, probably dismantle and free up clutch, oil chain....... any other thoughts? I believe it hasn't run since '89!
Will post photos next week
All the best
Jonathan

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2529 Location: UK

Hi Jonathan

Yes i would be up for a ride and a pint

It would also pay to check the tightness of the Starter Clutch bolts and loctite them in, and for a new battery i would recommend a Motobatt AGM one, i fitted one to my 1100 last year and it works well. link below

Keith

Motobatt Battery

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:28 pm

jonathan wrote:

John I've read your build thread, really good and you are clearly very capable. We come down to Jo'burg on the jumbo, and also Cape Town but not Durban. I see it's about a one hour flight from Jo'Burg, would you put the kettle on for a day tripper?

Thank you. Absolutely Jonathan, I look forward to it. Gimme a call when you in town +27 83 414 1430.

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Cheers Keith, have just ordered the Motobatt on ebay.
John I'll pm you when I'm expected down your way, it'll be March now as Jan & Feb already rostered. Look forward to seeing what's possible!
cheers Jonathan

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:53 pm

Jonathan,maybe take the oilpan of and check it.Also the filter,sometimes there can be dirt or other stuff that not should be there.I mean the filter inside the oilpan!!
Regards,

Wim

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

I've got the Clymer 900/1100 manual coming Wim, but briefly, can this be done in the frame? Presumably yes!

CB1100F Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 2529 Location: UK

Hi Jonathan

Yes you can remove the sump with the engine in the frame, you can also download the CB1100F manual Here in the Technical Documents & Articles section

Keith

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:25 am

There are a few copper rings on some mountingbolts (oilpan)think about them!
Wim

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Thanks for the tips. I'll tread carefully with anything even remotely complicated. Although reasonably handy I'd stop short of anything beyond medium level maintenance. I read threads like John's and others in awe!
Will be spending a few hours Tuesday and Wednesday on the bike so will post pictures whilst in Las Vegas on Thursday/Friday(and perhaps some from the auction there).
cheers all

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Latest update:
I finally got a couple of hours on the bike on Tuesday but discovered that more work will be necessary than previously thought. Not a great problem; it's all medium level maintenance which I should be able to manage.
Starting with the carbs. I simply removed them and dropped them off for ultrasonic cleaning. They rang me this morning to say that they had been filthy, really gunky but were now clean and ready to go, great news. The bike came with 4 Keyster rebuild kits for the carbs but I said to only use gaskets/seals from the kits if needed having read about the kits on this site.
The brake lines had been left empty after some maintenance in 2009, new pads, goodrich hoses etc so I decided to fill and bleed. There was a lot of crystalline jelly in the master cylinder(m/c) which I cleaned out but then I couldn't get the m/c to pump any fluid down the brake line. At this point I decided a full strip and rebuild of the brakes would be sensible. I've ordered brake m/c kits, caliper piston seals and dust caps/seals from David Silver and also new oil filter and oil, new air filter, 4 spark plugs. Unfortunately my next time on the bike will be in about 3 weeks but at least all the spares will be in!
Having chatted with the PO I have learnt some more of the history: It's actually a Canadian bike, registered in Ontario, I think on 11th July '85 with the reg no. 745EZ(would this be a Canadian plate?). The person who imported the bike to the UK was apparently living out in Canada and making a few pennies on the side by exporting big bikes to the UK as well as a lot of spare parts. He brought this one in and then didn't use it much before laying it up where it remained unused until 2008 when it was sold to a friend of the guy I bought it from. This owner fitted new tyres, new pads, spark plugs, oil, filter etc etc but didn't finish the job. He got it running(badly, see above about carbs) and then laid it up until 2011 when he sold it to the person I bought it from. This chap was also going to get it running but was overtaken by lack of money hence the sale on ebay.
One other interesting point is that the export docs show 45,800km(june 1988) and I have an MOT(vehicle test certificate in UK) from Jan 1989, 6 months later, showing 48,000 miles. I suspect the MOT engineer just wrote the odometer reading in off the clocks without noting the km/mph difference which makes me think the bike has only done 48,000km or 30,000 miles. There is evidence of accident damage in that a few fins on the right hand side of the block are broken and the 2 end covers are from a 900. The exhaust appears like new though so perhaps this was sitting in his stock of spares that he'd imported?
That's all for now, will post again in February when the next stage is attempted. It's not a rebuild in the same calibre as JY's but I hope it's of some interest to the general community.
All the best Jonathan
Pic of carbs off, protection as the bike is outdoors under a cover for the next few days

Pic of master cylinder cleaner with all the gunk in the tissue paper

Pic of the top of the goodrich hose. I'll blow through with an airline prior to assembly

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Well, how are we getting on? Sorry for the long delay since last update but just getting time at the bike to work is very difficult. The news is good, I've just had 2 ½ days there and progress is good. My box of spares from David Silver was there waiting, along with a new battery and a leaflet/brochure from Australia for the 1100f bought from ebay(I think I'm turning into a geek/nerd/anorak, delete where appropriate).
By now the bike was in the garage with a little space around it for working. I was going to start with the sump off to check the oil screen for crap but when I started on the exhaust headers I found that some of the studs were actually bolts:
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and as I didn't want to add to the workload I decided to scrub this part of the work. I know you'll all say that is gash work and fair point but don't forget at this stage I don't even know whether there's even any decent internals in the engine and I just want to hear it run to know I haven't bought a wreck. Excuses I know and I should have done it.
Oil change next so sump bolt out and filter off, all no problem. There was no copper washer on the sump bolt. Should there have been? If so can anyone tell me the bolt diameter so I can order a washer ready for a quick finger in the hole add-on, thanks. I added 4.5 litres as per the book and the dipstick showed the level correct.
Next was checking the valves. That was pretty straight forward but I only had a metric feeler guage with .05/.10/.15 choices(limits .06-.13). I reasoned that if the .10 went in that was ok but if either the .05 or .15 went in that would be not ok. All 16 were good apart from 2 which would (only)just allow the .15 in and one where the .05 could be (only)just persuaded in. As I don't have the ability/tools/shims to adjust right now I decided that, on a temporary basis, I could accept these figures. Getting the valve cover gasket back on, now that's a job!! Grease was handy to get it to stick. I ended up laying it on the head and carefully feeding it into the cover slot slowly as I lowered the cover. No leaks but I'll order a new one on next maintenance. You get a lot of oil spilling out of the head:
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Greasy valve cover gasket:
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Didn't have a correct size plug spanner(I had 16/25mm but not 18mm)so I left the original plugs in which were supposedly new and certainly appeared to be.
Battery had been on charge all this time so that was hooked up and ignition switched on, all good. I know that's a tiny thing but with ebay purchases you sometimes are just happy that things are as they appear, in this case a genuine bike.
I then decided to tackle the carbs. My local bike shop(Double Take, run by twins!) had ultrasonically cleaned them and used new gaskets from the kits that came with the bike but not jets or anything else. Refitting them looked a bit of fun but was not too bad in the end. I offered them halfway in and then tied the airbox rearwards for space. Fitted the throttle cables and choke cables which was fiddly and took about 30 minutes. Squeezing the whole bank in was ok but squashed the rubbers out of shape and certainly bent some of the clips substantially. I pushed the carbs forward first into the engine boots and then the airbox onto the carbs. With a good wiggle and plenty of coaxing all went on ok. A couple of the clips had to come off and be re-modelled!
I set up a large syringe on the fuel line(the tank needs POR-15, next job):
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and found the suck/blow? line to open the vacuum valve, lower pipe here:
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and fuel flowed freely into the float bowls. Quite a lot went in, 2 or 3 syringes, I guess about 150 ml or 40ml per carb. That's about an egg cup full each so probably about right.
The moment of truth was here!! Press the starter button with full choke and she started straight away, wahay! After a few seconds it was clear that only 3 cylinders were running so I felt the exhausts and no.4 was cold. Tested the HT lead with one of the new(unfitted)plugs and all was ok so I guessed broken plug and shut down. There was a lot of smoke and that was when I realised that I had used fuel with 2 stroke oil in!! What a numpty! I replaced with normal fuel and then ran again to run it through the float bowls. By now I noticed that the 4th cylinder had come in so must have been an intermittent problem. This is what the plugs looked like when removed:
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It's definitely not a 2-stroke!
Very chuffed now that I know the engine runs ok so I decide to tackle the longer job; the brakes. If you remember the PO said that the brakes had been 'done' but then left empty of fluid. In fact I found both MCs were very cruddy so had decided on a full strip top and bottom.
I started with the MCs. I stripped both down on separate areas of the bench to avoid mix ups(first time of course, I could assemble in my sleep now!), stuck everything through the mini ultrasound machine, here's the rear MC:
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and then scraped, rubbed, polished, wiped until all was pristine. Re-assembly was fine apart from the 'tiny hole' query I posted on technical. There were clearly 2 holes but the smaller appeared to be blank. I took it down to Double Take and he pushed a little tiny steel wire through what had appeared to be the blank. Once I realised that the 'tiny hole' was tinier than the actual hole entrance all was clear.
The calipers came off no problem. I think the PO had shares in copaslip grease as every bolt is caked in the stuff. Not a complaint as this is all good for the bike in the longer term and probably has helped keep it in good shape. I couldn't move the pistons and assuming the worst with regard to corrosion I got them down to Double Take for the compressed air treatment. In fact on arrival I was shown a great little extractor tool(probably very expensive) that you insert into the piston, expand and pull. All 6 came out instantly and virtually no corrosion!
Initial removal of pistons:
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DS spares packs:
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Nick(at DT) went to great lengths to explain that the grooves for the seals had to be perfectly clean and showed me some of the tools he has to clean the grooves out. I then spent 2 hours doing exactly that. I had a mini screwdriver for the 'rear' visible corners and used a sharp edged copper nailhead to do the front, non visible corner of the grooves. I used a dremmel brass wire brush(by hand, not in the dremmel) to finish. Reassembly was straightforward. Initially I thought DS spares had sent me some odd sizes of seals but realised towards the end of the job that I have different size front calipers. Could someone have changed one? Could one be off a 900? Are they different? I'll take pictures next time and hopefully someone could advise, thanks.
BLEEDING: I was very nervous about this. I'd read for hours on the forum and was 'concerned'. In the end I did a mix of techniques. I syringed up from the bottom but only got part of the way up for some reason. I then bled down from the top in the traditional way. Ultimately the brakes work pretty well. The rear is hard and short travel but the front lever comes too close to the bars before operating fully. Perhaps still air in the crosspiece/splitter at the horns?? They're good for now and perhaps a little use followed by a further bleed will solve that issue?
Traditional bleeding:
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Final issues? Front brake light switch wouldn't work and that was traced to a poor connection in the headlight shell. In fact the entire 8 core cable from the right handlebar switches had been cut and rejoined in the headlight, can't think why? Also the indicators stopped working but pulling the connector on and off the indicator relay a few times fixed that one.
How far do you think that syringe got me? About 50 yards, wow, these things drink fuel!!
Hope that's not too much info. I'm getting better at the posting but will try and remember to take more photos during the work to illustrate specific points. I appreciate my approach is not as complete and professional as many on these pages but still hope it is interesting. I'll never be a full rebuild/restore person but do enjoy things at this level.
Once again, many thanks for all the advice/info, gold dust to enthusiastic beginners!
All the best Jonathan

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:07 pm

You keep going mate… it all looks just fine to me.

beerchug

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:48 pm

Interested in the caliper extraction tool. Any pics?
Jonathon, your are not a geek/nerd/anorak, just turning into an F addict.

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Thanks Andy, you're a gent.
The piston extraction tool was like this set I just found on ebay:
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/380551019265?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0
Not cheap but maybe there are others out there?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:13 pm

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Sorry for the long gap since last post but here is the latest:
I've now POR-15ed the tank, a real pain in the arse of a job. I got it done but wouldn't rush into it again. These bikes are getting old now so I guess it will become a regular part of maintenance esp with ethanol getting more prevalent. There was a slight dent in the top of the tank which a local chap filled and painted for me for £40 including the paint, a pretty good deal I thought. I've also fitted mirrors and reflectors which came from IOM-CB, thanks Paul and a new leftside end cover from Delta Hotel, thanks Dave. Off to Le Mans for the 24 hours on June 20th so I need to get a few miles in to prove reliability before that.
She looks pretty good from a few feet away but certainly no show stopper. Good enough for me and a good everyday runner rather than concours.
Here are the results:
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Sadly I have to report that the sickness has worsened and I have added this to my collection:[img]

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A bigger job I suspect and one for another day!
All the best Jonathan
ps Uk-F'ers may have noticed the Q licence plate. This is temporary and the new one is already on the way. For non-UK F'ers it simply means the bike was registered without appropriate evidence of age on import from Canada and once I produced a letter from Honda giving age a proper reg has been allocated. Interestingly many insurance companies I tried refused cover on a Q plate!

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:26 pm

WOW Jonathan, big congrats on the 1100f resto. Looks amazing and a good useable classic.

How many F's in your stable now 3 or 4??

Hopefully going to get down to Le Mans as well in June.

All the best and keep up the good work. Smile

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:05 am

Great reading .. Thanks

Mike

Twinstar Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 94 Location: uk

Sorry for the delay, been away!
Just the 3 Mike. I sold the blue one when I found an Fz. I see the new owner has put it back on ebay....
Will post again when I have the F2d collected.
cheers Jonathan