Opportunity of a lifetime Interview with CB1100F &R desi

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:37 pm

A friend in Japan who is a member of the CB1100F and R club will be interviewing the designer of the Honda CB1100F and CB1100R this November.

I have gotton permission for the members here to solicit any questions they may have concerning the designing of CB1100F & R.

My fiend is a TV producer by day and they will be taping the meeting in HD, I'm not sure the DVD will be available to us but the transcript will.

Please understand that the Japanese culture is much different than ours so the qusetions must be stated in reverence to the designers, example, NO why did you design part X for the CB1100R, it seems like part X could have been better if you did Y.

All questions will be reviewed and rejected if they think it will cause the designers any embarrasment.

Please submit your questions here on this thread.

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:09 pm

cbxsix wrote:

A friend in Japan who is a member of the CB1100F and R club will be interviewing the designer of the Honda CB1100F and CB1100R this November.

I have gotton permission for the members here to solicit any questions they may have concerning the designing of CB1100F & R.

My fiend is a TV producer by day and they will be taping the meeting in HD, I'm not sure the DVD will be available to us but the transcript will.

Please understand that the Japanese culture is much different than ours so the qusetions must be stated in reverence to the designers, example, NO why did you design part X for the CB1100R, it seems like part X could have been better if you did Y.

All questions will be reviewed and rejected if they think it will cause the designers any embarrasment.

Please submit your questions here on this thread.

In reverence..Well of course! Shocked

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:58 pm

Heres a couple questions I'll be asking.

Could you explain the lineage of the CB1100F and R,
from what model did the CB1100's derive from?

Who developed the TRAC system and were you satisfied with its performance.

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

CB1100F Joined: Feb 17, 2009 Posts: 2105 Location: Oz

I'd like to ask. How important to Honda was victory in the Australian and New Zealand production motorcycle races like the Castrol 6 Hour in the late 70s and early 80s and why?

CB1100F Joined: Feb 17, 2009 Posts: 2105 Location: Oz

cbxsix wrote:

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

I thought he pretty much answered that in the letter you posted i.e., it was sexier!

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:27 am

DonR wrote:

cbxsix wrote:

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

I thought he pretty much answered that in the letter you posted i.e., it was sexier!

I'm hoping it can be expanded on, I also need to check with my contact on how many of the design team will be there, the letter I posted was from just one engineer's point of view, Shoichiro Irimajiri and that was from 1990.

I'm a little surprised at the slow response to this opportunity to ask questions from the people who actually designed the bike that this forum is named for, well maybe the thread will pick up, we do have a couple weeks before I have to submit the questions.

Twinstar Joined: Nov 24, 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Sydney

Please ask if they designed the cam chain tensioners during the annual rice wine festival (reverentially of course). Seriously though, who exactly is being interviewed? Semba-san I think is no longer with us and so it will depend on who it is as to what questions are relevant. For example, if it's Yamanaka-san then we'd ask about very different things than if it were Morioka-san or Irimajiri-san.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:33 pm

I would like to know how the original test riders of the CBX felt about 105 bhp on
what many consider to be marginal at best suspension.
Were items like the box swing arm and larger forks of the 1100f not yet designed?
It makes me curious because it is stated that both bikes were devoloped at the same time.

Jebby

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Jebby, we need to keep the questions pointed towards the CB1100F & CB1100R. They had a meeting two years ago with the designers and engineers of the CBX, so most of those questions have been asked before.

Asking questions about comparing the two would be fine though since some of the interviewees worked on both bikes.

So go ahead and modify your questions so I don't have to.

Thanks

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:46 pm

AlecF wrote:

Please ask if they designed the cam chain tensioners during the annual rice wine festival (reverentially of course). Seriously though, who exactly is being interviewed? Semba-san I think is no longer with us and so it will depend on who it is as to what questions are relevant. For example, if it's Yamanaka-san then we'd ask about very different things than if it were Morioka-san or Irimajiri-san.

Like I said in the previous post, I'll ask my contact who and how many of the OG will be there.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:02 pm

cbxsix wrote:

Jebby, we need to keep the questions pointed towards the CB1100F & CB1100R. They had a meeting two years ago with the designers and engineers of the CBX, so most of those questions have been asked before.

Asking questions about comparing the two would be fine though since some of the interviewees worked on both bikes.

So go ahead and modify your questions so I don't have to.

Thanks

Ah gotcha....apologize for that.... Wink

Jebby

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:48 pm

AlecF like I said, I'll post up who will be there when I hear back from Japan.

What I can tell you is that Minoru Morioka, Yoshitaka Oomori and Isao Yamanaka where present and interviewed in 2006 for the CBX meeting.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:53 pm

Jebby, you can go to the Japan CBX club wibsite and look around, even though they have an English page it helps if you can read Japanese, still there are some interesting videos, links and other things to look at.

www.cbx.jp

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:05 pm

UPDATE,
Minoru Morioka will be the interviewee, he designed the CBX, CB-F CB1100R, DAX, ELSINORE and so on.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:35 pm

I would be curious as to why the US version 1100F received the front quarter fairing and the rest of the world did not. Also interested in why the R model never came to North America.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:46 pm

cbxsix wrote:

Heres a couple questions I'll be asking.

Could you explain the lineage of the CB1100F and R,
from what model did the CB1100's derive from?

Who developed the TRAC system and were you satisfied with its performance.

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

Mmmh? Didn't both the R and the F derive from the 750/900? Honda wanted to have an endurance racer and came out with an increased displacement racebike based on the 900F. Then in 1983, they offered a less expensive, more streetgoing version, the CB1100F. I thought that was common knowledge.

So, the other question CBX or CB1100F as a flagship, is also answered. there was no CB1100F in 1979. That's why the CBX was the flagship. And Honda probably had found out that Kawasaki had been working for quite some time on an in-line six, so they had to push the CBX.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:37 pm

DOHCRob wrote:

cbxsix wrote:

Heres a couple questions I'll be asking.

Could you explain the lineage of the CB1100F and R,
from what model did the CB1100's derive from?

Who developed the TRAC system and were you satisfied with its performance.

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

Mmmh? Didn't both the R and the F derive from the 750/900? Honda wanted to have an endurance racer and came out with an increased displacement racebike based on the 900F. Then in 1983, they offered a less expensive, more streetgoing version, the CB1100F. I thought that was common knowledge.

So, the other question CBX or CB1100F as a flagship, is also answered. there was no CB1100F in 1979. That's why the CBX was the flagship. And Honda probably had found out that Kawasaki had been working for quite some time on an in-line six, so they had to push the CBX.

Those were examples to let the members know how and what type of questions to ask, If you were paying attention I tried to make a point of asking them questions without being rude.

Honda was developing the CBX and CB1000F in 1976 side by side, the CB1000F grew to being the CB1100F before its release in 1983 as a stop gap because the V4 motors weren't ready yet. Both the CBX and CB1100F were ready to be released in 1978, Honda went with the CBX.

Maybe we should be interviewing you instead, you seem to think you know everything, don't you ever have an original idea of your own or do you just always have to show up on someone elses thread and be a dick? , a wrong dick to boot.

The chance to ask the desgner of the CB1100F and R any question you would like and this is what you have to contribute?

No wonder you have to keep coming back under different ID's, you get old really quick.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:11 pm

cbxsix wrote:

Honda was developing the CBX and CB1000F in 1976 side by side, the CB1000F grew to being the CB1100F before its release in 1983 as a stop gap because the V4 motors weren't ready yet. Both the CBX and CB1100F were ready to be released in 1978, Honda went with the CBX.

Maybe we should be interviewing you instead, you seem to think you know everything, don't you ever have an original idea of your own or do you just always have to show up on someone elses thread and be a dick? , a wrong dick to boot.

.

Sorry, cbxsix, but if you decide to get personal, I have to tell you, you are full of it. You seem to be one of these people who can' take a different opinion and have to go into the insulting mode.
There is no question that there was a parallel development at Honda of a six and an inline four, but the inline four was not the CB1100F. The 1100F clearly evolved out of the CB750F and CB900F, which were both introduced in Europe in 1979. The CB1100F was brought to market just to give the inline motor one last boost while Hond already had the V-four concept ready. The CB1100F was based largely on the CB1100R motor.
So that you know, I had a Honda (and other Japanese brand) dealership until 1991 and we attended a lot of dealer meetings and presentations BEFORE bikes were unveiled to the public.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:48 pm

cbxsix wrote:

you seem to think you know everything, don't you ever have an original idea of your own

No, I don't know everything. Just a little. And here is something of my own:

Honda DOHC

The success of the 1976 RCB1000 endurance race bike with a double overhead cam, 4-valve head steered Honda into developing a new 4 cylinder engine for a street bike with the same valve train concept parallel to the development of the inline-six for the CBX.
The motor was developed by a team under Hiroshi Kameyama and it resulted in two different displacements that utilized the same housing. The 750 had a square configuration of 62x62mm bore x stroke and the 900 ended up with 64.5x69mm
Both bikes, the CB750F and the CB900F were introduced to the public during the 1978 German IFMA motorcycle show. (The same event, Kawasaki introduced the KZ1300 inline-six)
Besides the DOHC concept, the “Bol d’Or” models, so named after the French endurance race, shared one other weak area with the larger CBX: The chassis. The frame, designed by Isao Yamanaka ended up much too light, caused by the efforts to keep the overall weight low. Problems included vibration fatique cracks and ill handling in extreme situations. Like the CBX, the early models had plastic swingarm bushings and flimsy 35mm fork tubes. Improvements over the years included tapered roller bearings in the steering neck and needle bearings for the swingarm, as well as dual pistion brake calipers. A fork tube diameter increase followed from 35mm to an air assist 37mm and eventually 39mm by the time the 900F was introduced in the U.S. The wheels were changed also and the tires were made a lower profile.
After Dominique Sarron and Jean-Claude Jaubert won the endurance world-championship for Honda in 1980 on the RS1000, Honda presented the new engine generation in a redesigned race bike, the CB1100R. The factory racer produced 130hp out of 70x67.9mm bore x stroke, while the street bike put out 115hp from 70x69mm, the same stroke as the CB900F but with a larger bore.The chassis was loosely based on the CB900F frame and was generally accepted to one of the best Honda had made for a street bike up to this point. The only issue was a slight high-speed oscillation that would get worse with the rear tire loosing tread. Tires, steering neck bearings, fork and shocks needed regular check and proper service. The CB1100R was updated twice. Once for 1982 with a full fairing and an engine modification, providing more mid-range torque and a max 120hp. The chassis was modified to a shorter trail and a smaller 18” front and wider rear with new Comstar wheels. The second update for 1983 moved the front end of the fairing behind the vertical line through the front axle as required by the racing sanctioning body. The swingarm was now stronger and had a box profile.
In order to compete with the new Liter-bikes from Suzuki and Kawasaki, Honda replaced the CB900F for 1983 with the CB1100F. The motor basics were taken over from the CB1100R with a 70x69mm bore x stroke, while the frame followed, again, the CB900F design with all its improvements. Slight differences included the wheelbase, seat height and trail.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:19 pm

I remember some years ago at a MC show I think was Daytona,that endurance bike was on a pedestal going around.

Nothing like showing a bike you cannot have but the Kawasaki booth had big displacement bikes like the Z-1 for sale.

It was hard to see but I think was a DOHC head on the standardish SOHC bottom end,so not like a bike closer based on the CB-500 design like this bike actually is. This means primary drive to a jack shaft and then conventional from there vs the SOHC one that had the output shaft taken from a transmission gear.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:54 pm

I will reinerate what I said the first time.

You bring nothing to the table, the memebers were asked to contribute to the interview of the designer of the CB1100f and R with questions they may have.

NOT attempts at critiquing mine or anybody elses questions, I'm not interested in your attempt to hijack the thread with your constant LOOK AT ME Narcissistic personality disorder, I have no problem with opposing views when they are expressed when and where they are appropriate even when they are incorrect.

It is a running theme with you, if you're in need of attention so badly START your own threads or contribute something thats not about you.

Now if you think you can sit down your little man inner self, feel free to submit some questions for Minoru Morioka or FO.

As far as my comments on the development of the CB1000F along side the CBX in 1976, the CB1000 was developed in competition and along side the CBX, its cc later grew to 1100 displacement to become the CB1100F which eventually was released as a stop gap until the V4 motor was ready.

Heres a letter from Sensei Irimajiri explaing the development, looks like you were sleeping during your owners meetings.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:38 pm

cbxsix wrote:

I LOOK AT ME Narcissistic personality disorder,

As far as my comments on the development of the CB1000F along side the CBX in 1976, the CB1000 was developed in competition and along side the CBX, its cc later grew to 1100 displacement to become the CB1100F which eventually was released as a stop gap until the V4 motor was ready.

Heres a letter from Sensei Irimajiri explaing the development, looks like you were sleeping during your owners meetings.

Don't you worry, cbxsix, you are already on my list of people who deserve to be ignored. But if I have a narcissitic personality disorder, I must share that with you. You and your "look at me, I have an important friend who is going to interview important people" show. It is your prerogative to accept and believe word by word what a former Honda official says that he remembers, but as you seem to hold steadily to your theory that the CB1100F was developed alongside the CBX, here are some facts that everybody knows who has made himself familiar a litle with honda's racing history:

There were basically two Honda 1000c endurance racers. the first one, the RCB1000, was based on the CB750 SOHC motor with a twin cam, 4-valve head and gear drive primary. This bike was used from 1976 through 1979 and went through a myriad of changes and improvements. This bike is the only racer Irimajiri could refer to with his CBR1000 (?) comment from a timing standpoint and it is obvious to anybody why this is not a predecessor of the CB1100F.
In 1980 Honda brought out the RS(C)1000. Long after the development of the CBX. And that bike had a motor based on the 900F, which later evolved into the CB1100F.
There is absolutely no direct connection between a 1000cc 4-cylinder developed alongside the CBX and the CB1100F. The fact that you do not get much feedback from members here regarding your soliciting of questions tells me that most people know that
Oh yes, and btw, the word is reiterate

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:53 pm

DOHCRob wrote:

There is absolutely no direct connection between a 1000cc 4-cylinder developed alongside the CBX and the CB1100F.

Interesting comment, though everything else here points to you being totally wrong..
Where is your proof?
At least CBXSIX has posted notes from the engineer himself...

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:14 pm

I'd be curious on what is his favorite part of the design of the bike. Exhaust, bodywork, engine, etc. Could be how it looks visually or some part they had to design from scratch.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:20 pm

CowTownBiomed wrote:

DOHCRob wrote:

There is absolutely no direct connection between a 1000cc 4-cylinder developed alongside the CBX and the CB1100F.

Interesting comment, though everything else here points to you being totally wrong..
Where is your proof?
At least CBXSIX has posted notes from the engineer himself...

Well, O.K. then. I don't see that everything else here points to me being totally wrong (like what?) But if you are all of the opinion that the CB1100F was developed alongside the CBX, that's fine and so be it from now on! So the CB750F and the CB900F in 1979 were downsized versions of the CB1100F that Honda did not want to bring out yet. And the Neanderthal was the direct descendant of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
The engineer himself (Irimajiri) was the lead engineer for the CBX and supervised the CBX development. The group that worked on the four was a different group and worked on a competitive project. The fact that Irimajiri doesn't even remember the name of the racer correct and calls it CBR1000, should give everybody a clue, but it doesn't.
And no matter how many times somebody says so, the Bol d'Or motor does not go back to a 4-cylinder concept developed alongside the CBX.
Let's quit this now and have cbxsix collect some questions. Cool

Twinstar Joined: Aug 27, 2011 Posts: 38 Location: Norway

DOHCRob wrote:

And the Neanderthal was the direct descendant of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

I just have to be a smartass sometimes Razz

People that comes from a race outside of Africa only have 4% Neanderthal in them, we are descendents from Cro-Magnon. Very Happy

And I wouldn't trust outright anything someone from a big company says, they usually tell their version, and I know, I work for a small'ish company with 100,000 ++ people and have lot's of friends in other companies around the same size give or take 25000, and we have a good laugh when we have a drink together about who said what in the press and what the real deal is.

What company was told by Pops Yoshimura he wasn't gonna help anymore and why? It's about honesty and fair play, or lack of.

I also guess that there where atleast 3 or more different design teams fighting each other big time on the inside, but they must maintain a different picture to us on the outside.

Not saying one or the other is wrong, just don't be a fish and bite the biggest worm.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:32 pm

cbxsix wrote:

Here's a couple questions I'll be asking.

Could you explain the lineage of the CB1100F and R,
from what model did the CB1100's derive from?

What were the determining factors in choosing the CBX over the CB1100F as Honda's flagship motorbike in 1979's release.

Well then... it should be interesting to get the answers to these questions then won't it... Very Happy

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:07 am

Rob, submit a question for the interview or start a thread of your own.

I'm not interested in your or anyone else's opinions or critiques of mine or anyone else's interview questions posted here. It's unproductive and serves no purpose but to muddy the water. You have posted four times and still nothing to contribute from you, just childish insecure behavior.

If any members want to submit questions for the interview of the designer of the CB1100F and R you are also welcome to PM me.

The interviewers were exited to hear that CB1100F and R owners from the USA and other markets were interested in submitting questions.

Feel free to also PM me.

Twinstar Joined: Nov 24, 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Sydney

Can I propose the following question: Often there is speculation that the CB1100RB1 variant had slightly different chassis settings to suit the circuit at which the 1980 Castrol 6 Hour race was held. This seems unlikely given the resolution to compete at the 6 Hour only came about because the bike wasn't ready to race earlier in the year, at an event to be held in Britain. Deleting the RB2 variant fairing seemed appropriate for a race at Amaroo Park but is there any truth to the notion that the chassis settings were similarly tailored?

Twinstar Joined: Oct 02, 2008 Posts: 90 Location: Ireland

DOHCRob wrote:

cbxsix wrote:

you seem to think you know everything, don't you ever have an original idea of your own

No, I don't know everything. Just a little. And here is something of my own:

Honda DOHC

The success of the 1976 RCB1000 endurance race bike with a double overhead cam, 4-valve head steered Honda into developing a new 4 cylinder engine for a street bike with the same valve train concept parallel to the development of the inline-six for the CBX.
The motor was developed by a team under Hiroshi Kameyama and it resulted in two different displacements that utilized the same housing. The 750 had a square configuration of 62x62mm bore x stroke and the 900 ended up with 64.5x69mm
Both bikes, the CB750F and the CB900F were introduced to the public during the 1978 German IFMA motorcycle show. (The same event, Kawasaki introduced the KZ1300 inline-six)
Besides the DOHC concept, the “Bol d’Or” models, so named after the French endurance race, shared one other weak area with the larger CBX: The chassis. The frame, designed by Isao Yamanaka ended up much too light, caused by the efforts to keep the overall weight low. Problems included vibration fatique cracks and ill handling in extreme situations. Like the CBX, the early models had plastic swingarm bushings and flimsy 35mm fork tubes. Improvements over the years included tapered roller bearings in the steering neck and needle bearings for the swingarm, as well as dual pistion brake calipers. A fork tube diameter increase followed from 35mm to an air assist 37mm and eventually 39mm by the time the 900F was introduced in the U.S. The wheels were changed also and the tires were made a lower profile.
After Dominique Sarron and Jean-Claude Jaubert won the endurance world-championship for Honda in 1980 on the RS1000, Honda presented the new engine generation in a redesigned race bike, the CB1100R. The factory racer produced 130hp out of 70x67.9mm bore x stroke, while the street bike put out 115hp from 70x69mm, the same stroke as the CB900F but with a larger bore.The chassis was loosely based on the CB900F frame and was generally accepted to one of the best Honda had made for a street bike up to this point. The only issue was a slight high-speed oscillation that would get worse with the rear tire loosing tread. Tires, steering neck bearings, fork and shocks needed regular check and proper service. The CB1100R was updated twice. Once for 1982 with a full fairing and an engine modification, providing more mid-range torque and a max 120hp. The chassis was modified to a shorter trail and a smaller 18” front and wider rear with new Comstar wheels. The second update for 1983 moved the front end of the fairing behind the vertical line through the front axle as required by the racing sanctioning body. The swingarm was now stronger and had a box profile.
In order to compete with the new Liter-bikes from Suzuki and Kawasaki, Honda replaced the CB900F for 1983 with the CB1100F. The motor basics were taken over from the CB1100R with a 70x69mm bore x stroke, while the frame followed, again, the CB900F design with all its improvements. Slight differences included the wheelbase, seat height and trail.

Thank you for this information,its good to hear from somebody that was envolved during the period.