An interesting story...

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:07 pm

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/article1180943.ece

Lot's of angles on this.

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:46 pm

My 30 year old nephew called me one day and asked me to fly to Arizona to teach him how to ride . I told him there was no possible way at the time. Then i told him better than me going there to teach him he should, and would learn more by taking a certified motorcycle safety course, which he did. Thats what this poor guy should have done. There's no guarantees this would have saved his life, but who knows. My nephew came down about six months later and i was so proud of him . He rode his 1973 r70 BMW like someone that had been riding for years. My other advice to him, ALWAYS !!!!! Wear a helmet, jacket, gloves , pants which he does. Its hot here in Louisiana and in Arizona ,but sweat can be wiped off. Road rash cant.

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:37 pm

cycleboy1200cc wrote:

My 30 year old nephew called me one day and asked me to fly to Arizona to teach him how to ride . I told him there was no possible way at the time. Then i told him better than me going there to teach him he should, and would learn more by taking a certified motorcycle safety course, which he did. Thats what this poor guy should have done. There's no guarantees this would have saved his life, but who knows. My nephew came down about six months later and i was so proud of him . He rode his 1973 r70 BMW like someone that had been riding for years. My other advice to him, ALWAYS !!!!! Wear a helmet, jacket, gloves , pants which he does. Its hot here in Louisiana and in Arizona ,but sweat can be wiped off. Road rash cant.

+1

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:53 pm

The angle I'll take is when its your time, check-out leaving good memories behind you. We all take a gamble every time we ride a bike that no amount of training and protective equipment can make us immune from that: though I'll happily concede it can reduce the risk - and I'll gratefully accept anything that does minimise it. "those whom the gods love die young".

The favourite shirt of my youuth - it said : "I'm immortal" in large letters, in rather smaller letters underneath it said "well, so far". You can always learn something, better not to learn it when well past the point of commitment.

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:19 pm

Another shitty story of a newb getting on such a powerful bike he had no place on! Funny around my parts many of the accidents/fatalities I hear about are cruisers with no helmets and dressed to be "cool" dudes.

Doesn't suprise me when you go by the local bars and it's all HD's and Jap cruisers in the parking lot. Sure there's an occasional sport bike, but it's a rarity.

JMZG wrote:

cycleboy1200cc wrote:

My 30 year old nephew called me one day and asked me to fly to Arizona to teach him how to ride . I told him there was no possible way at the time. Then i told him better than me going there to teach him he should, and would learn more by taking a certified motorcycle safety course, which he did. Thats what this poor guy should have done. There's no guarantees this would have saved his life, but who knows. My nephew came down about six months later and i was so proud of him . He rode his 1973 r70 BMW like someone that had been riding for years. My other advice to him, ALWAYS !!!!! Wear a helmet, jacket, gloves , pants which he does. Its hot here in Louisiana and in Arizona ,but sweat can be wiped off. Road rash cant.

+1

Well put!!

The courses also give you an idea of signs to watch for that can signal a precarious situation. Of course one must have the sense to absorb these skills they teach and put them to good use.

I keep trying to get into one of the advanced rider courses, (they're free here in PA), but they're always booked so far in advance.

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:52 pm

ALWAYS DRESS FOR THE FALL!!! Not the weather!!!

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:34 pm

No matter how hot it is outside I always wear all of my protective equ.. But I think the key here is common sence this has kept me alive for 38 yrs of riding...last time I didn't use common sense I ended up on the pavement...such a shame to here this story....but it happens way to much.....fast bike...little experience....and well you know...i ride fast and aggressive...but I know when to draw the line and what to look out for

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:15 pm

That guy looks like the type to push himself to the limits. Sadly, his limits were well below that of the bike he was riding.

Stories like this make me more of a believer in graduated licensing. Heck, maybe requiring new riders to master a less powerful bike would bolster incentive to have some nicer 250 and 400 bikes.

Death is a sneaky fellow. "Any where, from any direction, at any time."

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:33 pm

Grad licensing not stop this...people save there money and buy what ever they want and kill them selves...my kids want to ride my... bikes but I say no...2 Reasons...to big and to young....and I can't buy parts at the Honda store......so I did something different....i booked this Wednesday. For trail riding lessons for both of them to give them a taste...we will see what happens after that.....now I know how my mother felt...!

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:44 am

this is sad. Sounds like a good guy. In the shop I'm working in- they like to call me the old man, or "dirt". We talk "glory days" motorcycling stories. But I always bring up the crashing and the dying. Since I've been in the shop, four of the thirteen guys I work with have bough motorcycles. From a Vulcan 800, a honda shadow, Old GPz750 and latest a young guy that's untill we started talking was a 22 year old kid that didn't even know how to shift a manual in a car. ( I officially removed his man-card for that). But he ran off and bought a 2001 TL1000R. IN fact he couldn't even ride it home- I went and picked it up for him. (yes- it is fun, fast, wheelies so easy..... damn) anyway. I tell them all over and over and over and over- wear your gear, ride within your limits, it's only as fast as a "twist of the wrist" All of them have taken the safety course......

But as someone that has influenced all these guys to buy bikes- it makes me worry. I feel responsible in ways. If any of them crash. Dammit- I really don't want that to happen. I know the inevitable. I've been doing this too long not to know. I am just going to keep preaching and re-iterating- safety safety safety. I'm setting two of them up to go down to a track day just to watch.

They should have a meet and greet with a quadripeligic, or something to get a license to ride. Then we decide.

Interesting little thing- went to yellowstone last week- (AWESOME) found it Ironic in Wyoming- no helmet laws, but do have seatbelt laws?????

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:36 am

These kind of things are why I love my F so much, its Heavy enough so that the power isn't so out of control and fast enough to still be a blast; most of what my brother can do on his CBR600 i can do on my F, but by the same token im not going 107 at the bottom of an on ramp just cause I tweaked my throttle a little too hard. Everyone should learn on a smaller bike, the need for speed is just such a powerful drug, and if you got 1000cc you're damn sure gonna try to use it! Wouldn't wish this kinda thing on anyone, hope they repeal the repeal of the helmet law.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:17 am

Fastball wrote:

I keep trying to get into one of the advanced rider courses, (they're free here in PA), but they're always booked so far in advance.

Not the ones in April! Laughing

Guest

basmn wrote:

Grad licensing not stop this...people save there money and buy what ever they want and kill them selves...my kids want to ride my... bikes but I say no...2 Reasons...to big and to young....and I can't buy parts at the Honda store......so I did something different....i booked this Wednesday. For trail riding lessons for both of them to give them a taste...we will see what happens after that.....now I know how my mother felt...!

Great idea!!!! Dirt biking is hands down the best way to learn how to ride PROPERLY!!!!

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:39 pm

basmn wrote:

Grad licensing not stop this...people save there money and buy what ever they want and kill them selves...my kids want to ride my... bikes but I say no...2 Reasons...to big and to young....

That statement is contradictory. Tiered licensing systems are designed to prevent new (young) riders from getting on too much bike. I use 'new' and 'young' in the same sense that even older new riders are 'young' to bikes, and while they might have more sense and self-control than younger new riders, they still don't have the experience and bkie handling skills that you build over years of riding.

The guy in this story went from no bike to high performance repli-racer with no gear and no training because he could. There was nothing to stop him, and there's nothing to stop the next guy from doing the same (in this country).

Most other countries use a tiered licensing system, where you start off restricted to bikes under a cetain size, like 250 or 350, and you need a combination of training and experience to move up to the next size. You must pass a rider education course, and poses the lower tier licence for a period of time (maybe a year) before you're even permitted to test up to the next level.

This approach does two things, the obvious one is that it limits the type of bike you start off with, but the other thing it does is impart the idea of respecting the machine and the training on new riders. When they're restricted from bigger bikes and required to take additional training, it makes those two things seem important.

There is a problem with the idea that all you need to do is pass a written test to get a temp motorcycle endorsement. In Ohio that limits you to daylight hours, no highways, and you must wear a helmet, but otherwise you can ride any bike you want. I could take a 20 question, multiple choice quiz in the morning, then buy a 200hp Ducati Desmosedici in the afternoon and legally ride it on the street. That's an extreme example, but you can buy a 120hp bike off of Craigslist for less than $3k, and that's just as bad.

Beyond that, all you have to do weave in and out of some cones in a parking lot to get an unrestricted license. I can't tell you the number of idiots who post on CL looking to rent a starter bike for an afternoon so they can take the DMV test. I guess their bike is too much for them to manuver, so instead of learning how to ride, they borrow a starter bike to get the license, then hit the streets with the rest of us.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:22 pm

I remember the days when people would borrow ther buddys 125cc yamaha to pass ther test as ther 750 norton was at home.but weather a 125 cc or a 1000,if you dont know your limits or use common sense you can kill your self easeally on either bike. most riders can go down a road at high speed....but when grampa pulls out of his driveway in front of you...this seperates the men from the boys.....

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:01 pm

Seems like most of his other sports were water based where helmet use is not a top priority. Not sure a helmet would have necessarily helped anyway.

Although when you hit a stationary object after you fall off a bike, you have big problems anyway.

No idea if he had any other prior two wheel experience (even BMX as a kid), he might have had better skills on the bike.

I'm not sure a modern sport bike is the best starter bike.

I saw a 17 yr old kid get paralyzed when he took a friends brand new GSXR 600 for a ride around the block. Kid only rode quads in the past, and went too fast, passed a stop sign and back wheel braked into the quarter panel of a car that had the right of way.

Accidents can happen anytime you are on a bike. They are inherently dangerous compared to cars. All you can do is cut the odds with certain behaviors and dress to protect what you can.

There is a certain element of chance at work anytime you ride.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:18 pm

77jester wrote:

But he ran off and bought a 2001 TL1000R.

Those thing are insane!! Ever wonder why you don't see too many of them in nice shape,....they always get wiped out or the more popular wipeout,..flipped!

Young man on one of those,......he should be in everyone's prayers.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:15 pm

Honestly from short time that I've ridden my 750 it has me a little scared. I've had a 71 Honda cl100 for awhile that I use to go to school and just ride around town but it's pretty much a glorified scooter. It's definitely helped me to become more comfortable riding bikes in general but the difference in power and size is pretty intimidating. I'm going to take the safety course soon but I'd also like to look around for a more advanced class that maybe involves a little track time. I live close to Infineon so I was thinking about seeing if they have anything out there.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:16 pm

davelepka wrote:

I can't tell you the number of idiots who post on CL looking to rent a starter bike for an afternoon so they can take the DMV test. I guess their bike is too much for them to manuver, so instead of learning how to ride, they borrow a starter bike to get the license, then hit the streets with the rest of us.

I got my UK motorcycle test just as they started this law in the UK (14th September 1982 according to my licence): they introduced a two part test (around the cones and on street) and a 125cc maximum size (with some relaxations).

As the 'around the cones' tests was so new there was a bike journalist at the test centre that day doing an article - he did the test (that we were doing on little 100/125cc bikes) two-up on a CBX. Very impressive and had a big impact on me that skill on a bike wasn't all about how fast you could make it go.

It is about having role models and good training when you start out...and then remembering the lessons (especially if you have a break and then return - perhaps to something much more powerful)

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:28 pm

That's a sad tale to read of someone's unnecessary death.

Here in the UK (and the rest of the European disUnion) we have the stepped licence laws. First step is a scooter/125 up to 12 HP to learn on. You are only allowed to ride it 2 years before you must take the compulsory training again or the full test. If you are under 21, you can still take the full test but are restricted to 33HP. Survive 2 years and you can derestrict or upgrade, the theory being that you've survived that long, so you must be OK. Final option is to do the basic training, then go out on a bigger bike under direct instruction for between 2 and 4 days - however long it takes to get competent - then do your test. This is now a written test and two-part practical test.
I used to instruct the beginners and we spent about 7 hours teaching people the basics before giving them their basic competence certificate. I only ever stopped 2 people who just didn't get it, but you got the feeling that at least these folks would be OK on a 125. As a biker myself, I wouldn't want to let anybody loose that I didn't feel comfortable with.

Biker accident statistics in the UK (and Europe) continue to drop, mainly because of the training but also the fact that less people are getting into bikes. Those of us that already ride are getting older and slower - I swapped an Aprilia RSVR for a VFR1200 (It's not that much slower actually, just more comfortable at speed, ahem).

The press complain that the Government are putting people off - no, they're legislating to make it safer. Because it costs around £600 to get through all the tests before you even buy a bike, motorcycling is no longer a form of transport. It's a hobby, a sport like windsurfing or rock climbing.

Me personally, I taught my two oldest boys to ride from the age of 16. They started on a 50cc POS scooter (which ended up with WAYY more scuffs than when I bought it), but once they migrated to 125 trail bikes, I took them out and gave them some advanced instruction. My oldest bought a CBR600 sport bike aged 21. The guy we bought it from couldn't believe he could afford to insure it, but he did - he had 5 years clean insurance discount bonus to draw on.

The moral of the story is that you need training, followed by skill and experience to enjoy a bike and stay safe. Government legislation gets a bad rap for "interfering" like the licence and helmet laws but we wouldn't dream of jumping on a 170HP sport bike these days and thinking we could survive for long, but then we have hindsight, skills and a helmet, don't we?

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:40 pm

cycleboy1200cc wrote:

Thats what this poor guy should have done. .

In Florida, the law says you must have an Motorcycle endorsement on your drivers license to ride a motorcycle.
The only way to get that is by taking the course, so he had done that...unless he was breaking the law that is.

R.I.P. Eric....

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:46 pm

dwarf717 wrote:

basmn wrote:

Grad licensing not stop this...people save there money and buy what ever they want and kill them selves...my kids want to ride my... bikes but I say no...2 Reasons...to big and to young....and I can't buy parts at the Honda store......so I did something different....i booked this Wednesday. For trail riding lessons for both of them to give them a taste...we will see what happens after that.....now I know how my mother felt...!

Great idea!!!! Dirt biking is hands down the best way to learn how to ride PROPERLY!!!!

I grew up riding dirt bikes at home on the back40. When I transitioned to street bikes it was a breeze. The bike and handling was instinctive at that point so all my attention could be paid to emerging traffic threats. The graduated system here in Canada is a joke - limits to what type of street, night/day, no alcohol, no pax etc.

Best defense, only defense really, is know your limits and practice practice practice on the back roads or quiet streets till you are competent.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

I know how to ride...and have many miles logged on many different machines....but i do not
ride hard on the public road......there are just too many variables......and the roads in texas suck.......undulating pavement and sink holes everywhere.......
When I want to be a bad ass...the Dragstrip is 12 miles away.......$10.....run as many times as you want.....
The CBX will make almost 100hp at the tire.......and that is enough to send you flying.......
I love sport bikes......but you can't control the environment......

Jebby