My neglected Silver 900F

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:41 pm

I pretty much had this bike where I wanted it prior to last years Honda Hoot. New chain, new S11 tires - I had even decided I didn't want to make any more changes to it as it was my 'weapon of choice' for long distance rides. It's always been 100% reliable and incredibly fast and smooth. Unfortunately, it's gone downhill very quickly.... Crying or Very sad

It started when the bike came loose in the trailer 1/2 an hour into the trip to TN. I pulled over to grab a coffee and realized what had happened when I opened the door to check on the bikes. The worst damage was to the RH sidecover which ended up with a hole clean through the plastic (now covered with a Matt at PSB memorial sticker. Damaging bodywork is akin to me losing a limb.

Late last season I adjusted the valves on both bikes - the performance on my red bike improved, but for some reason this bike has never run as well since then. The idle is choppy and while it revs out cleanly it just doesn't feel (or sound) right. I suspect I damaged a valve during the adjustment and unfortunately I took it for a 'brisk' 300 mile ride immediately afterwards. I scored a 17K mile head for it that I just got back from the engine rebuilders. It's been cleaned, lapped, fitted with new Honda valve stem seals and pressure tested:

I didn't want to ride it any more until I fixed it, so it's been sitting covered in the corner of the garage since it's last ride. I popped it off the center stand today to start prepping for the engine removal and I noticed the forks felt 'spongy'. Sure enough, I looked a little closer and both fork seals are leaking badly. I have no idea why as they were fine last season, but it's just something else to add to the list of things I need to do to the bike before the Honda Hoot in June. It never ends Rolling Eyes

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:47 pm

I have an 1100 head here I'd like to get done, how do they pressure test just a head by itself?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:50 pm

These bikes are never "finished" unless they are put in a museum. They require continuous care and feeding. Sorry about the hole in the side panel, tho.

Where did you get the head done & how much did it cost? I figure I am going to be due for at least a top end re-build at the end of this season.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:57 pm

i can hear it in the background..........FOR SALE one CB900F

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:13 pm

warpspeed wrote:

These bikes are never "finished" unless they are put in a museum. They require continuous care and feeding. Sorry about the hole in the side panel, tho.

Where did you get the head done & how much did it cost? I figure I am going to be due for at least a top end re-build at the end of this season.

I just got the head back a couple of days ago. A local engine builder did the work for me. The head looked to be in really good shape when I got it and I looked at buying the required tools and doing the work myself, but it wasn't economical for just one head.

The shop dissasembled it, hot tanked and cleaned it, gave the valves a light lapping and reassembled it with new valve stem seals. I'm not sure what they did to pressure test - he mentioned some procedure and some figures (tested with the valves in, but no springs or keepers) and told me it was all good. I remember him saying it was '8' or better on every cylinder, but I have no idea what the measurement was. The work cost me $60.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:16 pm

firemun59 wrote:

i can hear it in the background..........FOR SALE one CB900F

Everything's for sale, but I have a fond attachment to this bike so I have no intention of selling it. In the three or so years I've had it, I've done some memorable trips on it, and it has never let me down. I 're-learnt' to ride on this bike - it has treated me well, and I will repay the favour and get it back into shape.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:17 pm

pontiacstogo wrote:

warpspeed wrote:

These bikes are never "finished" unless they are put in a museum. They require continuous care and feeding. Sorry about the hole in the side panel, tho.

Where did you get the head done & how much did it cost? I figure I am going to be due for at least a top end re-build at the end of this season.

I just got the head back a couple of days ago. A local engine builder did the work for me. The head looked to be in really good shape when I got it and I looked at buying the required tools and doing the work myself, but it wasn't economical for just one head.

The shop dissasembled it, hot tanked and cleaned it, gave the valves a light lapping and reassembled it with new valve stem seals. I'm not sure what they did to pressure test - he mentioned some procedure and some figures (tested with the valves in, but no springs or keepers) and told me it was all good. I remember him saying it was '8' or better on every cylinder, but I have no idea what the measurement was. The work cost me $60.

that much work for $60 is amazing......but i guess if its your business of doing it all the time the whole process probably took less time than we realize.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:58 pm

Peter I borrowed all the tools to do my head myself from work. It took me a couple nights to do the work. I would guess 4-5 hours total. $60 is an amazing price! I wouldnt be willing to do it for someone for $60 and I am no pro.

I understand your feelings about all the trouble my bike is/was the same way to me. This website is a big help in keeping me going. I think I would have given up by now without the site. I had to do my fork seals twice because I used aftermrket seals the first time. Use OEM seals when you fix them. One thing I have learned working on these bikes is gaskets and seals should be purchased from Honda. Using the other brands is a gamble I am no longer willing to take.

Stick in there. You will find it was all worth it 2 minutes after your back in the saddle!

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:07 pm

motnick wrote:

Peter I borrowed all the tools to do my head myself from work. It took me a couple nights to do the work. I would guess 4-5 hours total. $60 is an amazing price! I wouldnt be willing to do it for someone for $60 and I am no pro.

I'm not sure how long Fred spent on the head - I dropped it off to him and picked it up two days later. Altoona's a small place, and this guy had done some work for me when I restored my T/A - it's possible he cut me a break, but I was happy with the price and wasn't about to question it.

motnick wrote:

Stick in there. You will find it was all worth it 2 minutes after your back in the saddle!

I'd be jonesing already if I didn't have another bike to ride Really Mad

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:46 pm

Everything's for sale, but I have a fond attachment to this bike so I have no intention of selling it. In the three or so years I've had it, I've done some memorable trips on it, and it has never let me down. I 're-learnt' to ride on this bike - it has treated me well, and I will repay the favour and get it back into shape.[/quote]

Peter, more noble words have never been spoken. A man, his dog, and his scooter. I love this place.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:03 am

Well even though the head is done and ready for the swap, I figured I'd address the leaky forks first. Ordered Progressive's from MAW (arrived in two days) and picked up a set of Honda seals from the local 'stealership'.

My first time doing fork seals, so it took me the better part of a day - that included a trip to Lowes to buy PVC piping and a trip to track down some bolts to block off the air hose. By the time I got everything reassembled, it was dark out but I took it for a quick ride and all is good with the forks.

Pulled it back into the garage and noticed gas is pissing everywhere out the overflow hoses.

My bike hates me Head Banger

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:12 am

Its just typical stuff that happens to bikes after they sit a little. It will probably clear up all by it self. That head looks good! Wink

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:46 am

It probably should be pointed out that the standard "hot tank" to clean parts is caustic soda which will EAT aluminum in nothing flat. If vat has fresh chemical part will disappear overnight. When we put iron and steel parts in vat at garage, we watched for bubbles/fizzing that occurs almost instantly to show if we had missed unbolting some small aluminum casting or part. I'm sure head was probably cleaned some other way or maybe there's some other heated chemical used I haven't heard of.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:47 am

By the way, $60 for that much work is unheard of, a really good deal.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm

Probably just a stuck float from not being ridden. Try tapping on the fuel bowls with a screwdriver handle. That is typical of float bowls that have gone dry.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:05 am

There's no turning back now....

I did just pick up these CR31's for this bike - nice to know I don't have to ferk with that damn airbox again Wink

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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:51 pm

It wont be long now. You will have that back together before you know it. On mine the cylinders were the b#tch to get off the rest came apart easy. Hopefully yours comes apart easier than mine did. I used Sonicretes advise on head bolt torque and I am very pleased because I have no leaks so far. The book torque seemed very light to me. You may want to read up on that here and consider using the higher torque value yourself.

Also make sure you have tension on the chain if you rotate the motor with the cams out. I got in a bit of a hurry after I had the head installed and got the chain bunched up. I thought I was going to have to take the head back off but I finally got it to come free. Only took two days to get it loose though! Rolling Eyes

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:03 pm

motnick wrote:

It wont be long now. You will have that back together before you know it. On mine the cylinders were the b#tch to get off the rest came apart easy. Hopefully yours comes apart easier than mine did. I used Sonicretes advise on head bolt torque and I am very pleased because I have no leaks so far. The book torque seemed very light to me. You may want to read up on that here and consider using the higher torque value yourself.

Also make sure you have tension on the chain if you rotate the motor with the cams out. I got in a bit of a hurry after I had the head installed and got the chain bunched up. I thought I was going to have to take the head back off but I finally got it to come free. Only took two days to get it loose though! Rolling Eyes

Oh trust me, I've been reading every post on head removal and reinstall that I can find Very Happy

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Feel free to take a ride out to sunny Altoona, PA this weekend and give me a hand if you get bored Razz

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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:05 pm

Your neglected bike looks as nice as any of my bikes, if not a little nicer detail wise. You do such detailed work Wink

compared to me, the butcher Confused

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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:44 pm

fasterspider wrote:

Your neglected bike looks as nice as any of my bikes, if not a little nicer detail wise. You do such detailed work Wink

compared to me, the butcher Confused

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Yep - but yours run well. Hopefully this bike will be back to it's normal self shortly (unless I screw something up).

If you left now, and rode straight through you could probably be here by Sunday to lend me a hand Razz

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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:58 pm

pontiacstogo wrote:

fasterspider wrote:

Your neglected bike looks as nice as any of my bikes, if not a little nicer detail wise. You do such detailed work Wink

compared to me, the butcher Confused

.

Yep - but yours run well. Hopefully this bike will be back to it's normal self shortly (unless I screw something up).

If you left now, and rode straight through you could probably be here by Sunday to lend me a hand Razz

.

They do run well, I have to admit that. Kind of like raped apes, very strong and very fast.
My next creation is going to be a fully detailed build frame up job that will include frame bracing and Pro-Link suspension. Every part that comes off the crashed red bike for this new build will be painted or polished or powder coated before it goes on the frame that will be here in a couple of weeks.

When I am done with this next one, it will look as nice as your bike does if not nicer because it will be mine. Wink

And both of your 900s look pretty much perfect as far as I can see in the pictures.
Never going east again, sorry.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:08 pm

Engine's out;

Next - head removal Popcorn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:19 pm

pontiacstogo wrote:

Next - head removal Popcorn

I have to pull the head on my CBX to replace the bent valve, you are lucky that there are only four cylinders.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:12 am

What's that black apparatus near your front wheel up against the wall under the electrical outlet?? Wink

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:31 am

Off with their heads!

Oh, and there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the valves at all Head Banger

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:40 am

Pontiac, did you do a compression check or leak down test prior to pulling the head? Might have saved you some effort.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:51 am

stoutblock wrote:

Pontiac, did you do a compression check or leak down test prior to pulling the head? Might have saved you some effort.

Now there's some good thinking...... Very Happy

Here's the deal. Bike has always run strong, clean and crisp at any revs. Did a valve adjust last season and immediately afterwards I notice popping on decel, popping at idle and a general 'flutteriness' from idle to 2K - anything above 2K was perfect. Definite noise from no. 1 valve area accompanied all of this and it was more than a tick, it was almost a rap or knock.

I checked the valves again; all were as they should be and nothing visibly wrong. That's when I determined that something must have gone awry during the initial valve adjust and I suspected I'd compressed the buckets on no. 1 when the lobes were not 'away'. At this point, I park the bike and use my red 900. Fast forward to now - I removed the exhaust header and notice that the no. 1 exhaust port is carboned and 'wet' compared with the other 3. This further reinforces in my mind that there is a problem with the valves on no. 1 and that's why the motor is out now.

The valves all look fine - I'm going to take the buckets out, flip it over and soak some gas in the bowls to see how much gets past the valves and if any one cylinder is worse than another. If everything looks OK, I guess I'll clean everything up, lap and replace valve stem seals and put her back together Rolling Eyes

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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:59 am

Are you replacing the cam chain or any other stuff in the bottom end, or just doing the head ?

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:06 am

Greg82 wrote:

Are you replacing the cam chain or any other stuff in the bottom end, or just doing the head ?

Just the head - everything else looks great; tensioners are barely worn - this bike supposedly had a rebuild not long before I bought it (though I have no evidence to support that).

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:06 am

I wrote:

The valves all look fine - I'm going to take the buckets out, flip it over and soak some gas in the bowls to see how much gets past the valves and if any one cylinder is worse than another.

Well the head passes the 'gas in the bowls' test. Guess it's going back on the bike.