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houredout401
Hawk
Joined: Jun 05, 2017
Posts: 334
Location: New England
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:42 pm |
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Curious if anyone knows the engineering reason behind the double plate. If it was just a spacing thing, seems they could have just had a thinner overall clutch pack. |
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tomk1960
Red CB1100F
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
Posts: 5048
Location: Worcester, MA
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:20 pm |
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houredout401 wrote: |
Curious if anyone knows the engineering reason behind the double plate. If it was just a spacing thing, seems they could have just had a thinner overall clutch pack. |
Good question and I have wondered the same thing. They used a double plate in the GL1000's too, and probably numerous other models as well. |
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Captain
CB1100F
Joined: Jan 02, 2009
Posts: 2250
Location: New Zealand
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:54 pm |
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To give it a more progressive feel.
Captain |
_________________ The answer is always "more power" always was, always is and always will be. |
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Grumpy32
Black CB750F
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 850
Location: Summerfield, Florida
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:30 pm |
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I thought it was meant to act as sort of a shock absorber and for anti chatter? |
_________________ Terry
07 cb 900f hornet 919... the fastest Red one. |
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Hondo57
CB1100F
Joined: Jun 20, 2014
Posts: 2305
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:56 pm |
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Also to keep the rear wheel from doing a burnout |
_________________ Greg |
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houredout401
Hawk
Joined: Jun 05, 2017
Posts: 334
Location: New England
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:22 pm |
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I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see. |
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Grumpy32
Black CB750F
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 850
Location: Summerfield, Florida
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:51 pm |
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houredout401 wrote: |
I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see. |
The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves. |
_________________ Terry
07 cb 900f hornet 919... the fastest Red one. |
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genesound
Red CB1100F
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11930
Location: Studio City, California
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:01 pm |
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Quote: |
The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves. |
Yes, there should be a very small amount of spring tension that holds the two plates apart by a small amount. The plates can move a bit, they aren't tightly riveted together, the rivets allow a bit of separation. I don't have a real number, but it's like .002" maybe. |
_________________
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Grumpy32
Black CB750F
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 850
Location: Summerfield, Florida
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Posted:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:47 pm |
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genesound wrote: |
Quote: |
The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves. |
Yes, there should be a very small amount of spring tension that holds the two plates apart by a small amount. The plates can move a bit, they aren't tightly riveted together, the rivets allow a bit of separation. I don't have a real number, but it's like .002" maybe. |
The part I don't understand, is why they used "brass" rivets. Dumb move imho... |
_________________ Terry
07 cb 900f hornet 919... the fastest Red one. |
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bobcat7
Silver CB900F
Joined: Oct 03, 2011
Posts: 1037
Location: dallas texas
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:06 am |
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unless there's a difference spline tooth difference
between one of the two plates, I don't see how the
rotational cushion could idea could work. possibly
its a anti heat transfer function device ? |
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houredout401
Hawk
Joined: Jun 05, 2017
Posts: 334
Location: New England
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm |
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Grumpy32 wrote: |
houredout401 wrote: |
I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see. |
The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves. |
I see, kind of like a secondary clutch spring, that would explain Capitains "progressive" comment. |
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djf18374
Silver CB750F
Joined: Oct 14, 2016
Posts: 573
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:57 pm |
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Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly |
_________________ 79 CBX (silver)
81 CB900F (silver)
83 CB1100F (red) |
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grump
Red CB1100F
Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 5627
Location: Grass Valley,California, USA
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:39 pm |
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So as with so many things, as i get older, this one goes into the "just the way it is file". I was going to mention the " who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. That plate can be eliminated. |
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genesound
Red CB1100F
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11930
Location: Studio City, California
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:39 pm |
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djf18374 wrote: |
Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly |
I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator. |
_________________
We don\'t see things as they are
we see things as we are
Viton Valve Stem Seals
12.9 Cam Holder Bolts
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djf18374
Silver CB750F
Joined: Oct 14, 2016
Posts: 573
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:31 pm |
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genesound wrote: |
djf18374 wrote: |
Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly |
I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator. |
I like that! "the clunk generator" |
_________________ 79 CBX (silver)
81 CB900F (silver)
83 CB1100F (red) |
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genesound
Red CB1100F
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11930
Location: Studio City, California
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:44 pm |
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djf18374 wrote: |
genesound wrote: |
djf18374 wrote: |
Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly |
I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator. |
I like that! "the clunk generator" |
Kind of a signature Honda noise. Like clutch basket rattle. |
_________________
We don\'t see things as they are
we see things as we are
Viton Valve Stem Seals
12.9 Cam Holder Bolts
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Grumpy32
Black CB750F
Joined: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 850
Location: Summerfield, Florida
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:10 pm |
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grump wrote: |
So " who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. That plate can be eliminated. |
Absolutely it can with two reg steels. I still don't understand why they used soft brass rivets. stupid idea |
_________________ Terry
07 cb 900f hornet 919... the fastest Red one. |
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houredout401
Hawk
Joined: Jun 05, 2017
Posts: 334
Location: New England
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:09 pm |
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grump wrote: |
So as with so many things, as i get older, this one goes into the "just the way it is file". I was going to mention the " who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. That plate can be eliminated. |
The purpose of the post was just intellectual curiosity, but if I have to explain that, then this thread is not really for you. If I don't care about a topic, I don't waste my time or karma peeing on others, but if it works for you, go for it. |
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grump
Red CB1100F
Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 5627
Location: Grass Valley,California, USA
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Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:25 pm |
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welll I guess i been put in my place by miss manner alright. |
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Nunzio
Black CB750F
Joined: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 947
Location: Hampton, GA
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Posted:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:18 am |
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I have a GL1000 as well and am going to replace the clutch soon. I'm also converting to a 1894 GL1200 hydraulic clutch cover. (Only 1 year for a cover that will fit the GL1000).
The double plate is for damping and a more subtle engagement. I'm removing this from my GL and replacing with a solid plate, then using an extra plate at the end of the stack up. Documented here: http://www.wingovations.com/clutch-plate-b-problems/4579471089
Not sure if this will work on the CB's as well. |
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muskrat
Hawk
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
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Posted:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:39 am |
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G'day fellas.
So would this plate cause a violent shudder when launching off the traffic lights against an R1?
The CLUNK going into 1st can be embarrassing. Tin toppers can hear it over their boom box! LOL
Cheers |
_________________ Only young once but can be immature for life.
83 CB1100F,
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NYE Bush fire took these 81 CB900, 76 Yam XT500C, 77Ag175 |
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