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genesound
Red CB1100F
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Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

I think this is a very a good thing. When done well, lane splitting has always been the safest way to ride a motorcycle IMO, on surface streets, or on the totally packed L.A. freeways. It was not prohibited in California before, but not really sanctioned either. Now there is no ambiguity, it's official at last as of today. There are also some fairly conservative rules going to be instituted for doing it safely, brought about by the CHP.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2016/08/19/law-2/lane-splitting-now-officially-legal-california/
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DonR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

We've had it in NSW for a couple of years now. It's great, especially when you pull up next to a copper look over and just smile.


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genesound
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Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

We've been doing it in Cali forever, as it was never prohibited, most riders did it, and the CHP even had recommendations for doing it safely, but now it is expressly permitted as legal by law for motorcycles, so other traffic sharing the roads have no legal standing to argue against it.

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mwe
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Joined: Oct 08, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah but I understand it seems like your legislature really just passed the buck, in that they left it up to the CHP to define what is safe, permissible and legal. This seems like a major legislative and social failure on the part of California. It is the legislatures job to create legislature and the CHPs job to enforce it. Giving the police legislative powers is a huge no no in my book.
 
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Shawn_Mc
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Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

mwe wrote:
Yeah but I understand it seems like your legislature really just passed the buck, in that they left it up to the CHP to define what is safe, permissible and legal. This seems like a major legislative and social failure on the part of California. It is the legislatures job to create legislature and the CHPs job to enforce it. Giving the police legislative powers is a huge no no in my book.


Legislative failure and California go hand in hand, like peanut butter and jelly. The California legislatures only function is to extort money from its citizens and thwart their Constitutional rights at every turn, every single chance it can.

Trust me, I've been living here for 55 years.

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grump
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Joined: Jul 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When I went riding with you guys, Gene, I could not believe how fast you lane split. I couldn't do it but being from the bay area where the drivers are stupid I was surprised how well the LA area drivers handled splitters.

Speaking of which what happened to that young guy??? that had the X pipe on his CB and then got one fo those first kawasuki 1200s.. uuhhh LEE that's it! ever see him any more?
 
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Hawk
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Joined: May 11, 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What about splitting between the carpool lane and the regular lanes? Lots of room there and I always do it, but the yellow lines thing. Are they going to allow that?

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genesound
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Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:44 am Reply with quote Back to top

grump wrote:
... Speaking of which what happened to that young guy??? that had the X pipe on his CB and then got one fo those first kawasuki 1200s.. uuhhh LEE that's it! ever see him any more?


I haven't seen Lee since about that time, Mike. I think he moved farther south in Calif, and had a bike shop. He had a ZX-14, actually he and his dad both had them, got them when they first came out. His handle here was INTIMIDA2OR, he hasn't posted since 2008.

Yeah, we definitely broke the CHP recommendations for sure. But even in the clear we were way speeding too. I had to quit riding a bit after that due to health issues.

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genesound
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Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:00 am Reply with quote Back to top

Shawn_Mc wrote:
mwe wrote:
Yeah but I understand it seems like your legislature really just passed the buck, in that they left it up to the CHP to define what is safe, permissible and legal. This seems like a major legislative and social failure on the part of California. It is the legislatures job to create legislature and the CHPs job to enforce it. Giving the police legislative powers is a huge no no in my book.


Legislative failure and California go hand in hand, like peanut butter and jelly. The California legislatures only function is to extort money from its citizens and thwart their Constitutional rights at every turn, every single chance it can.

Trust me, I've been living here for 55 years.


My family has been in NorCal since the 1800s. It was a much different state many years ago, like before Pat Brown was Governor. Pat of course was Jerry Brown's father, and Governor of Calif 1959 to 1967 (before Ronald Reagan was Gov of Calif), more California history...

Since there was not an official, legal yea or nea on lane splitting for decades here, but it was permitted, the CHP took it upon themselves to write a set of recommendations a number of years ago. This even made it to the DMV publications, but was soon removed from the DMV publications, because it wasn't really official doctrine. Here's a link to a copy of it: http://lanesplittingislegal.com/assets/docs/CHP-lane-splitting-guidelines-California.pdf

I figure something will be done to clarify the actual terms of the law at some point, or maybe it will just develop from case law.

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grump
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Joined: Jul 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

genesound wrote:
grump wrote:
... Speaking of which what happened to that young guy??? that had the X pipe on his CB and then got one fo those first kawasuki 1200s.. uuhhh LEE that's it! ever see him any more?


I haven't seen Lee since about that time, Mike. I think he moved farther south in Calif, and had a bike shop. He had a ZX-14, actually he and his dad both had them, got them when they first came out. His handle here was INTIMIDA2OR, he hasn't posted since 2008.

Yeah, we definitely broke the CHP recommendations for sure. But even in the clear we were way speeding too. I had to quit riding a bit after that due to health issues.


Right! zx 14 not 12. lee, ptrgordi and i had a nice canyon ride.
 
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norm
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Joined: Jan 13, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I remember years ago I was riding to work one morning and splitting through slow moving bumper to bumper cars at least 4 lanes wide. I noticed up ahead what looked like a big bunch of motorcycle helmets all bunched up above the top of the cars. Once I caught up it was about 15 bikes all stuck behind a motorcycle cop and they were all too shit scared to pass him.I looked at the situation, swapped through a couple of lanes and took off, I figured he could only book one at a time and by the time he realized I had flicked past it was always going to be too hard for him to chase. Once I had gone I looked in the mirror and I had a stream of bikes tucked in behind me
 
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ChrisLeeDesign
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Joined: Jul 20, 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:17 am Reply with quote Back to top

Haha, this happens all the time on my commute to work. Riders are scared to pass CHP on the freeways, I just swap lanes, and throw a peace sign at the CHP as I split by.

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Shawn_Mc
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Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:57 am Reply with quote Back to top

Z3RO wrote:
Haha, this happens all the time on my commute to work. Riders are scared to pass CHP on the freeways, I just swap lanes, and throw a peace sign at the CHP as I split by.


Most of the time they'll give you more room too.

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PGSmick
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Joined: Nov 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

mwe wrote:
Yeah but I understand it seems like your legislature really just passed the buck, in that they left it up to the CHP to define what is safe, permissible and legal. This seems like a major legislative and social failure on the part of California. It is the legislatures job to create legislature and the CHPs job to enforce it. Giving the police legislative powers is a huge no no in my book.


Hmm. Not sure I agree with your conclusions here. Almost every jurisdiction has a HUGE body of rules and regulations that the legislature authorizes administrative agencies to promulgate and then enforce. Massachusetts has its Code of Masachusetts Regulations (CMR) the feds have the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) and so on, and these are supplemented and updated on a daily basis. They would fill several bookcases in a library and have really teeny print on very thin pages. You can subscribe to the Massachusetts Register and the Federal Register respectively to keep abreast of it all, but it is a totally overwhelming mass of material. These regs are not merely procedural and they all carry the full force of law as allowed by their enabling statutes. Every MA ticket you get will be a violation of one or another CMR regulation, and not directly of a statute that the legislature passed on. So, not at all unusual.

My first years of riding were in CA and were between '68 and '72. I can't recall the official status of lane-splitting back then. But if memory serves, traffic in the Bay Area was not so bad that lane splitting was done that often. But if it was, and it was not illegal, then CA drivers have had at least 45 years to get used to the idea.

I shudder to think what would happen in MA if lane splitting were suddenly allowed. Much as I would like to be allowed to do it without getting a ticket, I think it would take Massholes at least as long as Californians to get the hang of it. I wish we could get a start somehow.

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genesound
Red CB1100F
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Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

In Calif we have a law section:

"22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

This law overrides and supersedes any posted speed limit signs, and requires the CHP to define what is safe all the time, it's at the top of their list of duties already, they train for it. Given that, it's very uncommon in SoCal to get a ticket for going 65 in a 55 zone (or even a little more), given good weather, other traffic, and road conditions. They're a bit more strict in NorCal though, so beware.

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PGSmick
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

genesound wrote:
In Calif we have a law section:

"22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

This law overrides and supersedes any posted speed limit signs, and requires the CHP to define what is safe all the time, it's at the top of their list of duties already, they train for it. Given that, it's very uncommon in SoCal to get a ticket for going 65 in a 55 zone (or even a little more), given good weather, other traffic, and road conditions. They're a bit more strict in NorCal though, so beware.


I believe, in fact, that almost every state's speeding statute is phrased just like that. Exceeding the posted speed limit is merely presumptive evidence that you are not driving reasonably and properly. FWIW, it leaves open your ability to argue to a judge that exceeding the posted speed limit under the particular circumstances was still reasonable and proper. In MA the penalties for exceeding the speed limit by from 1-10 mph are lower than for exceeding by more than 10 over. My impression of enforcement is that you won't get stopped for 1-10 over, but if stopped for over 10, and the circumstances are OK and you don't piss off the officer, you will get cited for the lower 1-10 over penalty.

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Hawk
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:12 am Reply with quote Back to top

CA VC section 22351-


22351. (a) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway not in excess of
the limits specified in Section 22352 or established as authorized
in this code is lawful unless clearly proved to be in violation of
the basic speed law.
(b) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima
facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in
this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by
competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not
constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and
under the conditions then existing.

Section 22352 covers residential areas and places that are listed as having fixed limits without signs needed.

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THX138
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

This is one of the dumbest f@ckin things I've ever seen so call d Lawmakers do. I never lane split at anything more than a crawl,don't have the balls to do it at speed. Why would you entrust your safety to the brain deads behind the wheel of a car? It's just asking to be run over. I mean really,just waiting for somebody to change lanes and punt you into the huge garbage truck next to you. I'll never split lanes at speed,just not safe. I'm sure most,99% will disagree with me but that O.K. L
 
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genesound
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
... I mean really,just waiting for somebody to change lanes and punt you into the huge garbage truck next to you. ...


Really? So then you're saying that they would be changing lanes into the garbage truck if the bike wasn't there? Highly unlikely, they will damn well see a garbage truck. The main problem is that cage drivers don't see bikes, because they aren't really paying adequate attention.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/02/ama-study-finds-lane-splitting-increases-rider-saftey

http://newatlas.com/motorcycle-lane-splitting-filtering-safety-research/34425/

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/article3204990.html

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f4fast
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

genesound wrote:
Quote:
... I mean really,just waiting for somebody to change lanes and punt you into the huge garbage truck next to you. ...


Really? So then you're saying that they would be changing lanes into the garbage truck if the bike wasn't there? Highly unlikely, they will damn well see a garbage truck. The main problem is that cage drivers don't see bikes, because they aren't really paying adequate attention.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/02/ama-study-finds-lane-splitting-increases-rider-saftey

http://newatlas.com/motorcycle-lane-splitting-filtering-safety-research/34425/

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/article3204990.html


Speed differential between vehicles is one of the major causes of accidents and lane splitting does involve creating a speed differential between vehicles..

So to me, the speed you split at is important...

However, we have air cooled engines, and it simply isn't good for your engine to sit in traffic with no airflow at a dead stop.....Seems lane splitting is clearly called for there. I have crazy thoughts regarding my rubber parts like camchain tensioners turning to hard black pieces of carbon with cracks in them as soon as I stop moving in the summer.

There must be plenty of statistical evidence that shows the practice doesn't significantly increase accidents or this change in law never could have happened.

Haven't ridden in Ca, so I have no experience doing this at higher speeds, but where I live lane splitting above about 40 mph(traffic) with big speed differential seems like you have very little time and room to react to unforeseen emergencies that pop up.

Lane splitting at seems to rely on the idea that regular people can be trusted not to drive foolishly and do stupid things while driving and I'm not there above about a traffic flow of 15 mph....

New car technology will help this as cars now have indicators in mirrors that let the driver know another vehicle is approaching from the side,if they are looking and not texting while the light comes on..

Regarding passing cops over the speed limit .....Ever consider that by doing so YOU EMBARRASS THE GUY INTO PULLING YOU OVER when you do that?.....particularly when other cars are all around.

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Zondar
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Lol, great posts guys. The wife and I went through Sacramento on the way back. We were sitting/inching along in traffic when I remembered lane splitting was "legal" in CA. I lived there from '87-'89. Soon as I remembered that a couple Harleys went by. The wife had never done it before and I chuckled as I could tell she was thinking about it and working up the nerve to try it. She finally put her flashers on and was inching along between the cars. Going that slow she kinda freaked me out. I finally took the lead and went at a more reasonable speed. Too slow and a bike handles like crap, too fast is, well, too fast. I usually drop into a lane around 30-40 or as soon as a decent spot opens up in the lane. I'm not sure about running flashers though. I think I would prefer the cagers keep their attention in front of them and not even see me as I operate a bike under the assumption that I'm invisible pretty much all the time anyway. Between texting and suddenly seeing something flashing in a mirror up close who knows what the already distracted/bored/unskilled driver will do.

I was on vacation in Sao Paulo Brazil a few years ago and wow, those guys lane split like crazy! They get so close that you quickly learn to keep your arms completely inside the car! Most of the riders I saw were riding stuff that looked to be 350s or smaller but they would be doing it at any and all speeds!

Anyway, the wife got a good rush out of it and actually thought it was great. I never realized it wasn't actually legal there until I saw this post. They'll need to do something like that here in Denver soon and I've done it a bit anyway when traffic was stuck.
 
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genesound
Red CB1100F
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Lane splitting too slowly is not a great idea. Cagers don't particularly like the idea of somebody lingering around less than a foot away from their side, I know I don't when I'm in a car. It's distracting and unnerving to the automobile driver if a biker with obvious lack of confidence is wobbling around alongside of them. If they can't do better than that, they shouldn't be doing it.

I don't condone or recommend it, but I have done some alarmingly fast lane splitting in the past, and on a full dresser. When doing it, it requires evaluating the position and motion profiles of the vehicles several cars forward in every lane you can see. It's not something you do casually. If anyone is bobbing and weaving, or driving erratically, it is obvious to an experienced lane splitter. The experienced lane splitter also must continuously evaluate whether there is ample time and distance to stop or sufficiently slow the high performance motorcycle before getting beside a nutjob that is driving without paying attention or is lane changing aggressively, at fairly high differential speeds. The skill of the rider is a variable there. Some people just aren't cut out for it i suppose.

It is possible to time your passing of a weaver so that you zoom by them when they're in the far side of their weave. The less time you're by them, the less opportunity they have to bumble into your side. Also, if people driving cars don't maintain at least a certain level of nominal lane position, they won't be driving on the freeway long in L.A. in the first place, they'll be on a towtruck themselves. They obviously have to keep it between the lines, or they won't last long either.

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