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Honda CB750/900/1100F SuperSport Website: SuperSport Forums


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Tdem
Black CB900F
Black CB900F



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1594
Location: Bear, DE 19701

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:35 am Reply with quote Back to top

So it was finally time to "fix" the clutch in my bike, despite nothing really being wrong with it, by daily driver standards, but I had the new clutch pusher and a few hours to kill, and 5 days of rain forecasted. So I begin with the bike up on the lift
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Then the cover came off and the clutch was disassembled. such a pretty wombat!!

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Out came the shifter rod thing with the shift window on it that will be modified

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before and after

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I'm not really sure how much to grind off so I called it quits before i actually did harm to the shifting mechanism. Anyone who has done this before can chime in. enough??

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You might be able to see the extra fiber plate in there, I've got 9 of the thin kind, may barnett? But my clutch basket isnt all chewed up, so I'm not sure having those thin ones is a bad thing, at least not in my case. So i removed the riveted plate and replaced it with 2 steals from another clutch I had. I didnt bead blast the steals, cause who has a sandblaster in their garage? Well not me. also some pretty red clutch springs. they make my hand tired!!! but they look so good inside the motor where no one can see, i can't bring myself to remove them.

then I installed the new pusher. You can see how different it is
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buttoned her back up, but its raining and I havent replaced the oil yet, so we'll see how she feels tomorrow.
 
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15487
Location: Lancaster,Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

Man alive sure looks like you took too much.

You work the shifter and watch it move the drum.

The linkage window "strikes" at the same time the overshift tab on bottom catches and the detent hits bottom. It strikes all at the same time.

The reason for the window is so if captain club foot ram rods the shifter it can bend the ratchet. It makes the shifter stop moving but at the correct time. In stock trim it stopped moving before the shift was complete.

Everyone I know has a bead blaster. Before I got a good one I used an Odd Lotts one,a bag of play sand and did it commando style outside.

There is NOTHING more important that bead blasting the steel plates,so just ignore me.
 
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Tdem
Black CB900F
Black CB900F



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1594
Location: Bear, DE 19701

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

I have another shifter rod with window that I can grind and install if need be. Would you suggest I try that or am I ok with having taken off too much?

I certainly didn't ignore you, don't let your feelings be hurt, we all heed your wisdom at every turn, I just don't have access to a sand blaster and I didn't have any clutch slippage before digging into it, so I'll save that for next time.
 
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15487
Location: Lancaster,Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:29 am Reply with quote Back to top

It is not for "slippage" but for "control".

Only said it dozens of times. The roughness prevents the oil from collecting on the steels,this makes it release "clean". The roughness allows the fibers to begin to engage before the pack is fully down so you get a longer friction point. The roughness allows the clutch plates to engage better so you do not need the god awfull heavy springs.

Try the one you ground and see how it works. All the spots should strike at the same time.

There is no "set" amount to grind. You can see a little tab on the shifter. There is another tab on the OD of the shift drum. When the shift is fully made,the roller detent hits bottom and these tabs catch all at the same time.

If you ground a whole bunch out of the window the tabs would still hit and the roller detent will hit bottom but there will be a gap from the pin to the window opening. The entire reason for this window is to take the force and take the stress off the ratchet deal on the top.

In auto say a Hurst shifter,they have some adjustable threaded deals so the shiter will only move so far to prevent putting stress onto the shifter arms on the transmission.
 
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Tdem
Black CB900F
Black CB900F



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1594
Location: Bear, DE 19701

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Since its still raining, i've decided that I will sand blast the steels in my clutch. How much do you blast them? is it, the more the better or am I just looking to de-glaze them with a quick once over blast?
 
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15487
Location: Lancaster,Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Call it glass bead blast. Sand blast infers the kind used to clean brick buildings. Depends on how much pressure you have,so aggressive media and no real pressure gets the same surface finish.

All you are really doing is removing the glaze on the steels and installing the typical glass bead finish.

If you take a mirror and a drop of oil on it stays as a bubble. Blasted finish and the bubble flattens out,still looks wet but does not wipe off.

This is what it does in the clutch. Enough lubrication on the plates to get a smooth engagement. Smooth plates and the oil adheres. It pulls it into the separation and enough oil does not release at all,it acts like a torque converter. You can rev the engine and it will just take off on its own. This is what happens if you make the oil hole in the side deliver oil all the time.

I just guess Honda does not have test riders to test a new product. Unknown how the shifting problem and chattering mess of a clutch made production. Maybe the crank to clutch ratio of the original 750 slowed clutch speed so it did not chatter. The 900 crank ratio made the clutch spin faster and maybe created the problem. All I know is a Z-1 Kawasaki with the same size clutch plates has perfect operating clutch. This Honda could not have been worse had that been the goal.

As a side info this also made the oil pump spin faster. Now combined with the dual section oil pump that almost doubled the volume through the hole may have been the cavitation and lower end failures. Installing the large sump screen was a partial solution.

Late engines have the oil pump a lot lower and even driven by a small chain. Maybe this vacuum to feed the pump was part of the problem,caused cavitation,and the resulting foamy oil killed these engines. Whatever under hard useage they are extremely fragile.
 
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