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rpgoerlich
Twinstar
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 87
Location: Katy,TX
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Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:23 am |
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Started having the starter clutch slipping a month after I had replaced broken springs. Went and picked up another off of ebay. Tore into it tonight not knowing what I'd find this time. Turns out I had a cracked Clutch assembly. Replaced just the housing with the spare and it turns over like it should again!
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Pointdiver
CB1100F
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 3201
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:33 am |
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Too funny, I did the same thing today! This one has hairline cracks running between every cut out circle and even under the bolt on the left.
I have to believe it was ready to crumble on the next start.
I also got one from ebay but only used the best parts of both.
Had to apply some heat on those bolts to get them off.
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rpgoerlich
Twinstar
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 87
Location: Katy,TX
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Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:48 pm |
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Used some red thread locker on it did ya ? Thats what I did going back in this time. |
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Pointdiver
CB1100F
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 3201
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:18 pm |
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rpgoerlich wrote: |
Used some red thread locker on it did ya ? Thats what I did going back in this time. |
Yup, those bolts were never coming off on thier own. The rest of the housing was a mess with the caps bulging out of the sheet metal. These things take a beating. |
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15486
Location: Lancaster,Ohio
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Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:46 pm |
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The same beating that knocks them loose will eventually crack the housing.
Basically the expanding force that grips to make it start can then be "too much" if the engine back fires.
Usually a fresh set of springs and cups as well as making sure the housing is fine will make them work. I never had much luck doing this job half assed and just tightening up the loose bolts,it takes apart and a full examination. |
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BluesMan
CB1100F
Joined: Jun 26, 2003
Posts: 2794
Location: Cincinnati, Oh.
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Posted:
Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:13 am |
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I just replaced all my springs after I found a broken one. Bikebandit had them for $1.71 each in case anyone is interested. When it starts acting up fix it, don't wait till it causes any damage, its easy to fix and doesn't take much time.
JMHO |
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dajudge
MB-5
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Lubbock
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:11 am |
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Okay maybe dumb questions but I will ask anyway. What would happen if you ran a fine welding bead around the cap holes as reinforcement or if you simply welded the holes closed? Also, the springs appear pretty lightweight and seem to compress too easily, can you replace them with heavy springs such as the type that come in a ball point pen? |
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15486
Location: Lancaster,Ohio
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:34 am |
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The springs only put the force against the cups/rollers and then it "catches" to "wedge" and allows it to engage to start.
On starting the centrifugal force throws the rollers away so it "lets go".
My guess it is possible to put enough force that it would try to engage/stay engaged after the motor is running.
You usually find some version of "heat damage" to the springs,they are collapsed. I have found the entire spring inside the cup. I have found the cup "worn through",ie it ends up being a "sleeve".
Some version of the roller "spinning" to make enough wear to wear the cup away. My guess is this could only occur after starting since with the starter spinning is not much speed to do that much wearing.
The hard part of the job is taking off the cover with 8 bolts to gain access. Usually the job is easy,especially unless you let it thrash around till it breaks the housing. I have had the splined part break off the housing,but this was starting the high compression race bikes.
This entire design worked fine starting little engines,Honda used it for years. It is just overloaded starting a big engine and must be constantly maintained. Suzuki uses a "dogbone" shaped sprag deal. The comparison is "early" GM turbo 400 autotrans compared to late when they went to this same roller sprag design. The 17 element or 34 element sprag would live and these roller things would explode and take out the entire back of the case. They have machined the Suzuki deal to fit these Hondas but it is expensive to do. |
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JSGAuto
Silver CB900F
Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Posts: 1433
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:31 am |
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Quote: |
Okay maybe dumb questions but I will ask anyway. What would happen if you ran a fine welding bead around the cap holes as reinforcement or if you simply welded the holes closed? Also, the springs appear pretty lightweight and seem to compress too easily, can you replace them with heavy springs such as the type that come in a ball point pen? |
Or just pick up the 750/900 version....no holes! |
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Pointdiver
CB1100F
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 3201
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:55 am |
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JSGAuto wrote: |
Quote: |
Okay maybe dumb questions but I will ask anyway. What would happen if you ran a fine welding bead around the cap holes as reinforcement or if you simply welded the holes closed? Also, the springs appear pretty lightweight and seem to compress too easily, can you replace them with heavy springs such as the type that come in a ball point pen? |
Or just pick up the 750/900 version....no holes! |
I think he is refering to the retaining band and the holes where the caps/springs poke thru rather then the metal housing that the bolts go thru. |
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15486
Location: Lancaster,Ohio
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:18 am |
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The holes are only lighter,does not affect the way it works or lasts. The wearing parts,springs,cups,rollers are the same as is the housing the rollers move inside of. |
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JSGAuto
Silver CB900F
Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Posts: 1433
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:30 am |
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My mistake Pete.
I think it may be effecting how long it lasts....see those cracks? |
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Pointdiver
CB1100F
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 3201
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Posted:
Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:40 am |
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JSGAuto wrote: |
My mistake Pete.
I think it may be effecting how long it lasts....see those cracks? |
definitely agree there, its so weak it's a wonder it did not crumble years ago. The 750/900 version is the way to go, I imagine the 1100 had the "lighter" version for wieght purpose but really is stupid design since the abuse is much greater in that engine. |
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PGSmick
CB1100F
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Posts: 2437
Location: Newton, MA
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Posted:
Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:18 am |
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JSGAuto wrote: |
Or just pick up the 750/900 version....no holes! |
Just remember that there are two different ring gears to go with two different hubs. The whole clutch hub/gear assembly is transferable between the 750/900 and the 1100, but the hubs and gears by themselves do not interchange. |
_________________ Peter.
1100 X 2 & 750
"Once you know how it's supposed to work, you can almost always figure out why it doesn't."
Gadgets: Fixed By Smicks |
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