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Blainethemono
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3278
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
The idle is choppy and while it revs out cleanly it just doesn't feel (or sound) right. I suspect I damaged a valve during the adjustment and unfortunately I took it for a 'brisk' 300 mile ride immediately afterwards.


Did you remove the cams to do this? If not, u prolly have the valves to loose and they are not opening all the way. You would know if you bent a valve. She woud run like crap, popping, and backfiring.....all sorts of bad crap.... Ill bet the valves are fine, and you just adjusted them wrong... (posted this b4 reading page 2).......Guess I was right...

Live and learn...

Cool Laughing
 
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thx113
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Joined: Apr 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

pontiacstogo wrote:
Well even though the head is done and ready for the swap, I figured I'd address the leaky forks first. Ordered Progressive's from MAW (arrived in two days) and picked up a set of Honda seals from the local 'stealership'.

My first time doing fork seals, so it took me the better part of a day - that included a trip to Lowes to buy PVC piping and a trip to track down some bolts to block off the air hose. By the time I got everything reassembled, it was dark out but I took it for a quick ride and all is good with the forks.

Pulled it back into the garage and noticed gas is pissing everywhere out the overflow hoses.

My bike hates me Head Banger


Peter

This is a bit out of left field, but has your 900 seen you riding newer/faster/flasher bikes during this time?

This could be the problem. A bit like if your wife/girlfriend saw you riding Scarlett Johansen or Naomi Watts. How do you think she would perform next time you tried for a ride? Very Happy

I hope this does not cause any offense, just that you have covered all the technical stuff and I'm looking for more karmic type of feng shui reasons.

Good luck.

PS I'd put on the recond head.

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Running 0.06mm to 0.09mm valve clearances since 1983 and proud of it.
CB750 FB
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motnick
Black CB900F
Black CB900F



Joined: May 05, 2004
Posts: 1658
Location: Wyandotte (Detroit) Mi.

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Peter my bike had 190 or more of compression in each cylinder before I rebuilt my head. I just needed new valve seals to stop the oil burning. I went ahead and lapped the valves anyway. I noticed a big improvement in the way my bike runs even though I didn't see a compression increase. If you have the new head why not use it?

Also how tough were the cylinders to get off? If they came right off I would say that is a good indication of the engine being rebuilt to at least some level. They are a bastard to remove after 25 years trust me!

Anyway if it turns out the head was fine then you just removed the engine because you wanted to get a perfect paint job on it! Wink We all know how you are about keeping your bikes looking great.
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Guess I figured it would make more sense to use the head with the cams it came with and save the rebuilt head for a spare (or swap it on to my red 900).

Cylinders aren't off yet - in fact they never budged. If it weren't for everyone here telling me I have to replace the base gasket, I probably wouldn't be. I don't think it was disturbed at all.

Oh yeah, I'm not bummed - I thought the head might be toast - I put 300 hard miles on it after the valve adjust and if I'd bent a valve the guide and seat would probably be toast. And yes, the engine needed a good detail and cleanup, and this will give me an opportunity to do so Wink .

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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cylinders are off.

Gave me chance to look at the main cam chain tensioner and it is cracked in 3 or 4 places - if I breathed on it funny, it would probably break.

I guess tensioners are on the shopping list Rolling Eyes.

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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:56 am Reply with quote Back to top

Picked tensioners up this morning (surprise, suprise my local Honda dealer had them in stock). The engine is back together and ready for a valve adjust and re-install. I ended up going with the spare head I had. The one that came off this bike will get new valve stem seals and a lap and go on the red bike. Here's some pics, but they're pretty dark.

Image
Image

The trickiest part was reinstalling the cams - that process makes me a little nervous, but I think they're where they need to be Shocked Very Happy .

The engine was flat black (barbecue paint) but I took the opportunity to clean it all up and respray it in a semi-gloss black that is much closer to the original finish. I also steam cleaned the bike frame as well to get rid of all of the 'mung' on the swingarm and sprocket area.

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larryg
CB1100F
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Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

I was going to PM but thought more guys than me would be curious as to what the cost are to do what you just did.

It sounds like head and cylinder gaskets along with all new tensioners. You didnt mention timing chains, so I'm assuming you felt comfortable with your old ones. You also didnt crack the bottom case and check crank or rod bearings right? And you didnt feel the need to bore or hone or replace rings. Which, since I've been a junkie here, havent heard of any piston failures. It seems like you did a moderate rebuild that also seems to have taken you minimal time too. You should proud.

I have my 1100 motor sitting on a cart waiting for me to do something with it. It needs two time serts installed so I can put in all my new exhuast studs. But I've been bothered with a nagging feeling I should crack her open while shes sitting right there. Its got about 26 thousand miles on her, not one of those by me. I've only heard it run once and it sounded great with no smokes or rattles. What to do? So if you could me an idea of what you did actually cost it may help me make my decision. Good luck the rest of the way too. Wink My local mechanic comes from the school of "if it aint broke.....dont mess with it". Hard to argue with that line of thought too.
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
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Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3278
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
I took the opportunity to clean it all up and respray it in a semi-gloss black



Looking GOOD!! Hope ya didnt do what I did, and find out that gas just destroys the paint job... Shocked Embarassed Crying or Very sad
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

larryg wrote:
I was going to PM but thought more guys than me would be curious as to what the cost are to do what you just did.

It sounds like head and cylinder gaskets along with all new tensioners. You didnt mention timing chains, so I'm assuming you felt comfortable with your old ones. You also didnt crack the bottom case and check crank or rod bearings right? And you didnt feel the need to bore or hone or replace rings. Which, since I've been a junkie here, havent heard of any piston failures. It seems like you did a moderate rebuild that also seems to have taken you minimal time too. You should proud.

I have my 1100 motor sitting on a cart waiting for me to do something with it. It needs two time serts installed so I can put in all my new exhuast studs. But I've been bothered with a nagging feeling I should crack her open while shes sitting right there. Its got about 26 thousand miles on her, not one of those by me. I've only heard it run once and it sounded great with no smokes or rattles. What to do? So if you could me an idea of what you did actually cost it may help me make my decision. Good luck the rest of the way too. Wink My local mechanic comes from the school of "if it aint broke.....dont mess with it". Hard to argue with that line of thought too.


I might have delved a little deeper if the engine were an unknown quantity to me, but I've been riding and enjoying this bike for 3 years or so (has it been that long? Shocked ). It starts well, shifts well, and there's no nasty noises (other than then ones I might've created myself) so I didn't feel the need to get into the cases - besides - where do you stop....

I picked the head up used from a forum member - he felt it came from an engine with 17K miles and it looked to be in very good shape. As you'll see earlier in this post, I farmed the headwork out, my only other costs (so far) have been a top-end gasket set and the two tensioners. Neither tensioner was badly worn, but the main tensioner was full of stress cracks. The cracks were not visible until I removed the cylinders and removed the tensioner. I still need to buy intake rubbers as I felt it was a good time to replace them, and the head came without any;

Head (rather not say).
Head work (clean, de-coke, lap, fit valve stem seals and test) $60.
Top end gasket kit (base gasket, head gasket, valve cover gasket, valve stem seals, front tensioner o-ring, tach drive seal, exhaust 'donuts' etc.) - around $130.
Tensioners (my local Honda dealer cut me a break as they had thrown them in with a bunch of stuff they were going to eBay) around $150.
Miscellaneous stuff like paint, oil, filter, degreaser etc. maybe another $50?

I'll never know if I needed to open this engine up or not - I suspected I had valve sealing issues and I didn't - and maybe the tensioner would have lasted for years to come, but I feel better knowing that for around $400 bucks, I'll have a good sealing, dependable engine (I hope Very Happy ).

On a completely separate note - it was great to get inside one of these things and see how everything works - at least from the cases up.

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thx113
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

Peter,
Did you use the 1100 style tensioner for the big cam chain?

_________________
Running 0.06mm to 0.09mm valve clearances since 1983 and proud of it.
CB750 FB
CB1100FD Super Boldor
VF1000RE x 2
VF1000RF
Black scooter (06 CBR1100XX)
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

thx113 wrote:
Peter,
Did you use the 1100 style tensioner for the big cam chain?


Nope - I've read that they're a better design, but I just went with the regular 750/900F style.

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thx113
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have a new one here for my 985 and I was hoping someone had done the homework. Wink

_________________
Running 0.06mm to 0.09mm valve clearances since 1983 and proud of it.
CB750 FB
CB1100FD Super Boldor
VF1000RE x 2
VF1000RF
Black scooter (06 CBR1100XX)
Red scooter (94 VFR750FR)
CT110 Hyper Sport 
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larryg
CB1100F
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Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3393
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you Peter. Its been bothering me that I wasnt going far enough by just doing the valve adjust, knowing that some of these F bikes, because of age or mileage would start spitting chain adjusters around that mark and cause real permanent damage. Yet the thought of doing a zero mile rebuild down to new crank and rod bearings, new valaves and springs, bore job and pistons was going to be a nearly $2000 dollar job doing most it myself. Unaffordable for me. Your $400+ seems like well spent money. I think I should do a leak down test prior to any work and do you know of any way of checking tensioner condition without pulling and inspecting them? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks again. Wink
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
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Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3278
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Motorcyclist magazines 24 hour endurance run review of the 900F @ Willow Springs praised the bottom end of the 900s. "Easily make it to 100,000 miles" was the quote... Cool

Stout and I re-ringed my 900 a few years back and also did a head job to fix a burnt valve. Head work cost me $150, New valve, upper chain tensioner, and gaskets were not to expensive, so $400 would be a fair price to state. Excellent results for $400...... Cool
 
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GB
Hawk
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Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 404
Location: Nescopeck PA

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

thx113 wrote:
I have a new one here for my 985 and I was hoping someone had done the homework. Wink


It's a direct exchange between the 900 & 1100 tensioner.
 
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CB900SS
Red CB1100F
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

Image
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
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Joined: Mar 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

SWEET!!! Cool
 
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thx113
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

GB wrote:
thx113 wrote:
I have a new one here for my 985 and I was hoping someone had done the homework. :wink:


It's a direct exchange between the 900 & 1100 tensioner.


Thanks, I will put an 1100 tensioner into my new 985 then.

Cheers

_________________
Running 0.06mm to 0.09mm valve clearances since 1983 and proud of it.
CB750 FB
CB1100FD Super Boldor
VF1000RE x 2
VF1000RF
Black scooter (06 CBR1100XX)
Red scooter (94 VFR750FR)
CT110 Hyper Sport 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

My CR31's arrived today;

Image

I haven't got much done this week - I've been waiting on my Honda dealer for new intake boots, a replacement cam-cap bolt and some shims. Everything's torqued up and ready to go - I just need to finish the valve adjust and get the engine back in the bike and hooked up (yeah, that's all Rolling Eyes Very Happy ).

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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:14 am Reply with quote Back to top

Engine's back in the bike - I'll throw the exhaust on tomorrow and see if it'll start....

Image
Image

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Red CB1100F
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

You give me insperation to breath new life into my 900's motor... Nice work. Wink
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
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Joined: Mar 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Way cool Pontiac..... I notice you have a 74 Trans Am. I have a 71 Esprit in my back yard in pretty rough shape, but the body is straight, no cancer, and its all there. If you have any links for parts or advise on restoration, please feel free..
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

My baby's back and she's better than ever beerchug

Image

I have to pop the tank off again as I forgot to put the steering damper back on Head Banger . Probably not a bad thing as I need to do a quick once over and make sure everything's buttoned up. She fired first touch of the button and is idling and running like her old self only smoother (well, a lot better with the CR's).

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larryg
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Beautiful Peter. You do amazing work.
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Blainethemono wrote:
Way cool Pontiac..... I notice you have a 74 Trans Am. I have a 71 Esprit in my back yard in pretty rough shape, but the body is straight, no cancer, and its all there. If you have any links for parts or advise on restoration, please feel free..


71 Esprit's are a nice ride Cool ; I'm guessing 350? The T/A's are nice, but I'm also a fan of the Formulas and Esprits as they're not all cluttered up with spoilers, vents and wheel flares. I'd start any Pontiac restoration with the PHS docs ( http://www.phs-online.com/services.htm ). Send them your VIN and some cash and they'll send you back a copy of the original order for your car listing all of its options, colors and the dealer it was ordered from.

If the thing has no rust, you're in much better shape than I was with mine. What are your plans for it?

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Last edited by pontiacstogo on Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

larryg wrote:
Beautiful Peter. You do amazing work.


Thanks Larry - if I can get some rides in this week, I might even have enough confidence in the old girl to head East for a long ride on Friday Cool .

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Blainethemono
CB1100F
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
If the thing has no rust, you're in much better shape than I was with mine. What are your plans for it?


Pete, Yep it is a 350ci. I was holding it for a friends son, but he flaked out and doesnt have the time, money or inclination to do anything with it. My next door nieghbors step son, is going to buy it for $500 and go from there. I found a kool Firebird link in Vancouver, B.C. that has a lot of new old stock stuff. They have brand new center consoles. door panels, etc... The kool thing is that the molded dash is in pefect shape!! You know how hard those things are to find?? Engine appears to be ok...so we shall see Cool Rolling Eyes
 
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bikeboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

pontiacstogo wrote:
My baby's back and she's better than ever beerchug


You do excellent work Peter. That sure is one (another) beautiful bike.

cheers
ian
 
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fasterspider
Red CB1100F
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Joined: Jan 24, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Peter, your bike looks absolutely beautiful, great job.
 
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stoutblock
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Peter, you did good!
 
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