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pidjones
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Posts: 133
Location: East Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

Just announced today, ban will take effect in 180 days. Lots of paint strippers contain MEK. So, stock up now if you don't want to rely on the alternatives. I don't understand how EPA decides this is their territory. Seems to be more a CPSC or OSHA area. BTW, it is still permitted for commercial uses, but EPA is reviewing it for that also.

What do you guys use as alternates? And, do you use all safety precautions when using MEK?

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genesound
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11168
Location: Studio City, California

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Acetone... Or lacquer thinner which smells much better.

Where are you going to keep that 55 gal drum of MEK??? Twisted Evil

It's really nasty shit. My friend that had to use it daily back in the 70s gota really nasty blood fungus from using it. He was in the hospital for a day, while they gavehim IV, then he went home and took pills afterward. We had to take over the speaker reconing for him in his absence. I was also a JBL certified reconer, but I was always out on the road, not in the shop doing reconing.

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Tdem
Black CB900F
Black CB900F



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1594
Location: Bear, DE 19701

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

In the process of re-doing a 74 CB200 and it was covered in Honda Bond. Apparently the only solvent that removes honda bond is MEK. I couldn't get in anywhere months ago, i guess Home Depot and Lowe's were preparing for this ban. I resorted to Goo Off and plenty of muscle. Goo Off gets it tacky, but still doesn't melt it off like MEK does.

That's the reason to have 55 gallons of it. Rolling Eyes
 
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genesound
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11168
Location: Studio City, California

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Tdem, I'm surprised acetone wouldn't touch it, it usually works on anything MEK does. Lacquer thinner is more selective, but also less harmful to the nose. Maybe that's why I use ThreeBond 1184 or 1194.

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Quickster2
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Feb 02, 2013
Posts: 116
Location: Davisburg Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Enamel reducer works well also and is less odoriferous than MEK.

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PGSmick
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Posts: 2371
Location: Newton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Just for the record, I think the the EPA ban is on retail sale and consumer use of methylene chloride which is NOT the same as methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). Acetone is often used as a substitute solvent for MEK, but not, as far as I know, for methylene chloride. There may well be substitutes for methylene chloride that work just as well in strippers, but I have no idea about them or how well they work.

So, I think if you're worried about MEK going away, you're good for the time being.

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1100 X 2 & 750
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tomk1960
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Nov 13, 2009
Posts: 4510
Location: Worcester, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

PGSmick wrote:
Just for the record, I think the the EPA ban is on retail sale and consumer use of methylene chloride which is NOT the same as methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). Acetone is often used as a substitute solvent for MEK, but not, as far as I know, for methylene chloride. There may well be substitutes for methylene chloride that work just as well in strippers, but I have no idea about them or how well they work.

So, I think if you're worried about MEK going away, you're good for the time being.


Methylene chloride is the killer ingredient used in the best strippers. On the rare occasion I have to strip a powder coated part, the only thing that works quickly is a very strong stripper called B17. It removes PC in minutes, paint in seconds. It also burns skin on contact and is not to be messed with. I showed Ricardo (a chemist) the MSDS sheet for this and he told me to run away quickly. Sad

"Aircraft Remover" made by Rustoleum is a decent paint stripper and will attack/remove PC over time. It also works pretty well removing caliper paint. I had to use that to strip a pair of CBR F2 wheels, which took 3 applications, a couple hours each, and plenty of labor to remove completely.

Acetone may remove nail polish, but at far as paint goes, that or lacquer thinner are weak substitutes for the good strippers.

If methylene chloride is going away, B17 and the decent strippers are in jeopardy. I have yet to find anything that works as well or as fast. Guess I'd better stock up while I can.

*Update* Benco Sales (manufacturer of B17) confirmed that they will be able to continue selling their product to businesses. As Peter mentioned above, the good strippers using methylene chloride will not be available for consumer use.

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DrOlds
Silver CB900F
Silver CB900F



Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1193
Location: Watertown NY USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

The Army base I live near got rid of MEK several years ago (not sure if it was a DOD mandate or a post directive? Anyway MEK is dangerous to come in contact with (breathe or touch.) ..... We all hope to live long lives so please don't take chances....

Frequently Asked Questions
METHYL ETHYL KETONE

What is METHYL ETHYL KETONE (MEK)?

Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) is a colorless liquid with a sharp, sweet odor. Methyl ethyl ketone (also known as
2-butanone) is a man-made chemical that is also found in nature.

Where can methyl ethyl ketone be found and how is it used?

MEK is produced in large quantities. Nearly half of it is used in paints and other coatings. It is used for these
products because it quickly turns into a vapor. It also dissolves in many substances. Other uses are glues and
cleaning agents.

In nature, MEK is made by some trees. It is also found in small amounts in some fruits and vegetables.
Manmade MEK is released into the air from car and truck exhausts.

How can people be exposed to methyl ethyl ketone?

People who use MEK at work have a good chance of being exposed to it. MEK is used in shoe factories,
printing plants and plastics factories. It is also used in making sporting goods.

You could be exposed to MEK through:

Breathing air when making or using products that contain MEK. Product examples include paints, glues,
coatings or cleaning agents. Breathing MEK can also happen near waste sites polluted with MEK. You can be
exposed by breathing cigarette smoke or sniffing glue.

Drinking water from polluted wells near factories where MEK is made or used. Well water near waste sites
may contain MEK pollution.

Touching products made from MEK. You can touch MEK liquid when it is made or used.

Eye contact by splashing it in the eyes at work. If you touch soil polluted with MEK, then rub your eyes, your
eyes could be exposed.

How does methyl ethyl ketone work?

If you breathe MEK, at least half of what you breathe in will enter your body. The other half will leave in the air
you breathe out. We do not know how much MEK will stay in your body if you drink it or touch it. The amount
of MEK that enters your body depends on how much you were exposed to. It also depends on how long the
exposure lasts. Your body gets rid of MEK in urine. MEK also leaves the body in the air you breathe out. MEK
does not stay in your body for very long. It will be gone from your system by the next day.

How can methyl ethyl ketone affect my health?

People exposed to MEK have nose, throat, skin and eye irritation. If MEK is inhaled with other harmful
chemicals, the damage can be more serious. Animals that breathed or swallowed high levels of MEK had
serious health effects, including birth defects, fainting and death. Rats that swallowed MEK had drooping
eyelids and difficulty with muscle movements.

There was no damage to the ability to reproduce. Mice who breathed low levels for a short time showed short-
term effects on behavior. Animals that drank water with low levels of MEK for a short time had mild kidney
damage. There are no long-term studies with animals breathing or drinking MEK.

MEK has not been named as a cancer-causing agent.

How is methyl ethyl ketone poisoning treated?

There is no treatment for methyl ethyl ketone. Treatment depends on the type of exposure.

What should I do if exposed to methyl ethyl ketone?

If you eat or drink methyl ethyl ketone, call a doctor or Poison Control Center right away. You should try to
vomit by taking ipecac syrup, a syrup that makes you vomit. It is available at most drug stores. If you do not
throw up in 10 to 20 minutes, repeat the water and ipecac. Continue to throw up until all fluid is clear. Drink
lots of water. Get medical help right away.

If you touch methyl ethyl ketone, take off your clothes. Wash yourself with soap and water.

If you get methyl ethyl ketone in your eyes, flush with clean water for up to 15 minutes. Get medical help
right away.

What factors limit use or exposure to methyl ethyl ketone?

At work, safe work methods limit exposure. Have a source of fresh air and a ventilation system. Breathing
protection should be provided. Wear protective clothing and safety glasses. If you live near a waste site that
may contain methyl ethyl ketone, avoid contact with soil. Drink bottled water if well water is polluted.

Is there a medical test to show whether I’ve been exposed to methyl ethyl ketone?

Exposure to MEK or its breakdown products can be measured in the blood, breath and urine. These tests are
useful only for recent exposure since MEK and its breakdown products leave the body fast.

Technical information for methyl ethyl ketone

CAS Number: 78-93-3
Chemical Formula: C4H8O
Carcinogenicity (EPA): MEK has not been evaluated for carcinogenicity.
MCL (Drinking Water): There is no MCL established for MEK.
OSHA Standards: The Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) for an 8 hour day, 40 hours per week is 200 parts
per million of air (590 milligrams per cubic meter of air).
NIOSH Standards: 200 parts per million of air (590 milligrams per cubic meter of air). IDLH 3000 ppm.
ACGIH: 200 ppm Threshold Limit Value (TLV)

References and Sources

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 1992. Toxicological profile for MEK. Atlanta,
GA: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH). 2003. Guide to Occupational Exposure
Values. Cincinnati, OH.

NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards. 2003. Atlanta, GA: U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services.

U.S. E.P.A., IRIS, Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0071.htm - Accessed 12/7/09

New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services, Hazardous Substances Fact Sheet – Meth Ethyl
Ketone, http://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1258.pdf - Accessed 12/7/09



24/7 Emergency Contact Number: 1-888-295-5156
Revised: 01/2010

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dannewman
Hawk
Hawk



Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Posts: 478
Location: eastport,maine U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

It's a polyester resin hardener used commonly in boat building,,, which we use a lot of at work. Might have to start using bear hide and pine pitch,,,

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Lindy
Hawk
Hawk



Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Posts: 465
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

the military got rid of that crap awhile ago, due to health risk problems
 
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DonR
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Feb 17, 2009
Posts: 2050
Location: Oz

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:55 am Reply with quote Back to top

genesound wrote:
I was also a JBL certified reconer


You wouldn’t happen to have an LE-25 recone kit for my 4312s lying around by any chance?
 
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J-Rod10
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Feb 04, 2014
Posts: 91
Location: Russellville, AR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

Wonder how that'll effect the composite industry. Polyester/vinyl ester use MEK-P as a hardener.
 
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pidjones
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Posts: 133
Location: East Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

PGSmick wrote:
Just for the record, I think the the EPA ban is on retail sale and consumer use of methylene chloride which is NOT the same as methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). Acetone is often used as a substitute solvent for MEK, but not, as far as I know, for methylene chloride. There may well be substitutes for methylene chloride that work just as well in strippers, but I have no idea about them or how well they work.

So, I think if you're worried about MEK going away, you're good for the time being.


And, you are correct, I was wrong.

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genesound
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 11168
Location: Studio City, California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:00 am Reply with quote Back to top

DonR wrote:
genesound wrote:
I was also a JBL certified reconer


You wouldn’t happen to have an LE-25 recone kit for my 4312s lying around by any chance?


Sorry Don, that was 41 years ago.

QLD speaker repair in ... of course... Queensland, has them. Here's an ebay link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Recone-Kit-to-suit-JBL-LE25-Speakers-RCJBLLE25-/152006813531

I bought some crossovers for other projects from them a few years ago. They have an extensive website too.

https://qsr.net.au/shop/speaker-recone-kits/jbl-le25-recone-kit/

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DonR
CB1100F
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Joined: Feb 17, 2009
Posts: 2050
Location: Oz

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Cheers Gene
 
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