Tire dilema, help me choose.

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:09 pm

I heard that before. Rolling Eyes

I have been riding bikes since I was 12. There is no problem at all in ridding the bike with these tires combination.

First, my idea is to add a radial on the back as soon as my Kosman widened wheel arrives.

Second, let me say I have riden the bike like this for a long time, and I do ride my bike, it is not a trailer queen or a shiny fancy photo shoot bike. I do ride 12 months a year, there is no winter season where I live, and although I am no Kenny Roberts nor anything close to it, I do have fun in canyons and fun street ridding.

Let me say this, there is no danger nor problem in using this front tire. Unless you are Kenny Roberts shooting for hard cornering at Laguna Seca, no issues at all.

There is no bias ply tire in that size, you have choices.

Use this tire in the front, and I can assure you there are no issues ( unless, again, you are a racer on the edge ).
For there to be a noticeable difference between both tires, you would need to be ridding hard, for a period of time, fast and crazy, ( Kenny Roberts on track comes to mind ) in hard cornering at full speed ( not your average fun rider ) for the issue to become relevant.

You can always add a rear radial tire if you are going to change both tires. That will add peace of mind. I did not do that because, like I said, I was in the process of modifying my rear wheel ( when an accident at the wheel shop delayed my wheel project for more than one year! )

Provided you are a normal human being that earns a living working and rides for fun, and pleasure, you will be fine.

Let me say this, the performance is great, and the looks are unbeatable over the stock 100/90/19 and the 110/90/19 which would be a taller tire than the 100/90/19 due ot its wider stance ( 110 vs 100 ) while retaining the same aspect ratio ( 90 ) which would push the extra width upwards on the same wheel ( 2.15 ) making a taller wheel/tire package with a larger overall diametre.

My conclusion is the 110/80//19 is better than the 100/90/19 because it is wider and lower, and better than the 110/90/19 because although same width, it is lower in aspect ratio ( lower sidewall ) allowing that extra width to disipate properly along the width of the wheel, which is 19 X 2.15

Peace.

Jaime._________________________________________________________-

Bucko wrote:

Jaime wrote:

I am using a 110/80/19 in the front of my 750F.

I think it looks nice, it is wider ( 110 vs 100 ) lower ( 80 vs 90 ) and performs great.

Here a few pixes. Definitely less bulky than the 100/90/19.

My God! That's a radial! Don't you know that your liable to go insane, your arms will fall off, and your children will be born naked if you put a radial on the front! Unless it synthetic of course. Very Happy

CB1100F Joined: Mar 03, 2004 Posts: 3278 Location: Seattle

Quote:

My conclusion is the 110/80//19 is better than the 100/90/19 because it is wider and lower, and better than the 110/90/19 because although same width, it is lower in aspect ratio ( lower sidewall ) allowing that extra width to disipate properly along the width of the wheel, which is 19 X 2.15

NOT SO FAST.... Shocked

"Note that there's not necessarily a free lunch here -- wider tires can mean that other tire dimensions will change, sometimes not for the best. In the old days, a tire was a tire and the sidewalls were about as tall as the tire was wide. The term "aspect ratio" was unknown. But today, a 90/90-18 means that the tire has an aspect ratio of 90%.

That is, if the tire is (nominally) 90 mm wide, and the aspect ratio is 90%, then the tire is 90% of 90 mm, or 81 mm tall. In other words, the second "90" means that the tire's profile is 90% of its width.

Which means that a 90/90 is a theoretical 81 mm tall at the sidewall; a 100/90 is 90 mm tall, and a 110/90 is 99 mm tall. Here's a table that shows the differences in millimeters and inches:

Motorcycle Tire Aspect Ratio Calculations

Tire Width, Tire Profile, Height (mm), Height (inches)
90 90 81 3.19
100 90 90 3.54
110 90 99 3.90
110 80 88 3.46

The problem arises when the tire sidewall heights are dramatically different than stock -- they can start to affect the stock suspension or chassis setup. In this case, if the bike was originally designed for a 90/90 tire, with a sidewall height of 81 mm, changing to a 110/90, even though the width will fit, changes the ride height by raising it a theoretical 18 mm, or .7".

That's almost 3/4". Is that a dramatic difference? I think so. This issue can be mitigated somewhat by raising the fork tubes in the head clamps (or triple-tree). This lowers the front end a bit, and to a certain extent, can restore the bike to somewhere near factory specs.

The catch in all this is that the numbers are sort of theoretical. We'll see (I'm getting to it!) that even though a tire claims to be a 100 or 110 or whatever, the manufacturers may be stretching the truth a bit. Which means that, yes, in theory, a 100/90 has a 90 mm high sidewall. But in real life, it depends upon the design, construction and other factors in the tire."

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/sizes.htm

The author of this piece eventually settled on the BattleAxe 110/80/18 as a better feeling tire for him and his bike, but I dont think Bridgestone makes a 110/80/19 front tire.... and niether does Metzeler.

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:08 pm

Jaime wrote:

Provided you are a normal human being that earns a living working and rides for fun, and pleasure, you will be fine.

So if you're an alien from another planet, an animal (or a fish), or unemployed, or living off a trust fund - then you shouldn't use radials.

Good to know.

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:51 pm

Man, oh man. You guys are no help! LOL
Everybody seems to have a different answer. I had no idea that we will venture into Radial vs. Bias Ply territory!
I was set on getting 100 front and 130 back when I started the thread, but now I'm stumped again.
Let's try this again. These are the combos I'm still thinking about - Vote(A,B,C,D,E or F!)!
Stock 750F, reversed Comstars:
A - 100/90(S11), 120(S11)
B - 100/90(BT45), 120(BT45)
C - 100/90(BT45), 120(S11)

D - 100/90(S11), 130(S11)
E - 100/90(BT45), 130(BT45)
F - 100/90(BT45), 130(S11)

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:16 am

Why don't you just go buy what you think will work...then wear them out! Very Happy

Man you must have waisted 2 good days of riding already.. Laughing

But my bike has (D) and I like that set up just fine...

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:48 am

pontiacstogo wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Provided you are a normal human being that earns a living working and rides for fun, and pleasure, you will be fine.

So if you're an alien from another planet, an animal (or a fish), or unemployed, or living off a trust fund - then you shouldn't use radials.

Good to know.

I guess that is an accurate statement.

In those cases you either would not need a motorcycle, would have better technology available, or else, could not afford to buy a better tire.

I agree! Very Happy

Jaime._______________________________________________________

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:57 am

Why does everybody think they are better engineers than the factory? Do you think you know more than Bridgestone or Honda? Bridgestone makes the BT45 and S11's for 2 different purposes. If you are a risk taker, then try what you want. If you'd rather be safe, then listen to the Bridgestone and Honda engineers and mount matching tires in the recommended size! I have BT45's on mine and am very satisfied.

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:13 am

MikeG wrote:

Why does everybody think they are better engineers than the factory? Do you think you know more than Bridgestone or Honda? Bridgestone makes the BT45 and S11's for 2 different purposes. If you are a risk taker, then try what you want. If you'd rather be safe, then listen to the Bridgestone and Honda engineers and mount matching tires in the recommended size! I have BT45's on mine and am very satisfied.

Whom was this directed to? Confused

You have BT45s in which sizes?

CowTownBiomed wrote:

Why don't you just go buy what you think will work...then wear them out! Very Happy

Man you must have waisted 2 good days of riding already.. Laughing

But my bike has (D) and I like that set up just fine...

My tires still have some life left, it's not like I need them NOW. But I do want to get it done for those trips that pop up all of a sudden.

CB1100F Joined: Mar 03, 2004 Posts: 3278 Location: Seattle

On further reflection, I tend to like Jaimes suggestion........

Next time around Ill give the Battle Axe 501s a try

110/80/19.... front
130/80/18.... rear

Cool

We didnt have that option........ back in the day...... Twisted Evil

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:09 am

I have Avons on my Hurricane. It's better than sex. ...just ask my wife.

She has put quite a few miles on ....the bike. We both like the way it handles....

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:14 am

"E"......Everyone has a personal preferance....these bikes are OLD!.....A myriad of tech has come across the pike since these things were built. What's good for one....may not work for the next guy....
NOBODY told me what tires to put on my vette.....I think some of that applies here........ Confused

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:48 am

Not to take this too far off topic, but as my bike is getting closer to being done I need to make a decision.

My bike currently has Metzeler ME88 tires (stock sizes) and has sat for 10+ years I think (I've only owned this bike a couple). They look to be in great shape and with lots of tread; is it even worth considering actually using them? Confused

I recently bought some bt45's (120/90/18 & 100/90/19) and am happy to put them on, that's what I bought them for, but if I could roll on the existing tires for a little while then that's one less thing I have to get done before I can ride. Any thoughts?

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:52 am

Personally I would install the new ones rather than risk riding on 10 year old tires.

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:14 am

If they aren't weather checked - I'd ride them.
BTW I have BT45s on my X and they are decent for the money.

CB1100F Joined: Mar 03, 2004 Posts: 3278 Location: Seattle

Quote:

is it even worth considering actually using them?

The general rule from tire guys is that they are TOO OLD. Do not ride on them.... regardless of tread depth. A sidewall could go without any warning, and that is no good if it happens deep into a corner... Shocked

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:15 pm

Hijack:

silversurfer1050 wrote:

I have Avons on my Hurricane. It's better than sex. ...just ask my wife.

She has put quite a few miles on ....the bike. We both like the way it handles....

Hey, a vote for Avons. I've got a set of Avons on the Blackbird and the rear is mostly gone. The front is fine and only want to replace the rear. I'm not a fan of mixing brands but, know nothing of Avons.

Bill, tell me more. About the Avons. Very Happy

Back on topic:

I've got BT45's on the 900 in stock sizes. I like them a lot. The softness shows in the wear rate. But, I like them.

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:02 am

what about sport demond .

Bruno

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:03 am

What about spotr domond
Bruno

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:11 am

I have the bt45's (120/90/18 & 100/90/19) on a 1982 900F. My comment was aimed at nobody in particular, but I am always amazed at how people think they can out engineer the Honda and Bridgestone engineers by mixing and matching and changing sizes. I am in the engineering business, and we spend a lot of time and money optimizing design decisions like this using established engineering and scientific principles. The chances of backyard experimenters coming up with something better are pretty slim.

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:33 am

MikeG wrote:

I have the bt45's (120/90/18 & 100/90/19) on a 1982 900F. My comment was aimed at nobody in particular, but I am always amazed at how people think they can out engineer the Honda and Bridgestone engineers by mixing and matching and changing sizes. I am in the engineering business, and we spend a lot of time and money optimizing design decisions like this using established engineering and scientific principles. The chances of backyard experimenters coming up with something better are pretty slim.

I'd agree with you if we were talking about bikes that just came out... or a few years old. However, tire technology has come a long way since then.
I think I will run the same sizes as you btw. Just have to decide on tires.

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:52 am

Blainethemono wrote:

On further reflection, I tend to like Jaimes suggestion........

Next time around Ill give the Battle Axe 501s a try

110/80/19.... front
130/80/18.... rear

Cool

We didnt have that option........ back in the day...... Twisted Evil

It is a nice tire. Looks good, and performs right!

You will not regret it. Wink

Jaime.___________________________________________________________

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:28 pm

Batan wrote:

Man, oh man. You guys are no help! LOL
Everybody seems to have a different answer.

I was set on getting 100 front and 130 back when I started the thread, but now I'm stumped again.

Let's try this again. Stock 750F, reversed Comstars:

E - 100/90(BT45), 130(BT45)

Batan,

I choose this size but rather put AVON AM26 Roadrider tires.

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/?page=tyres&method=showspecs&id=6

Google it, read peoples opinions on this.... Wink

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:14 pm

I will chime in now.

The size listed on the sidewall does not have one damn thing to do with the size you measure with a ruler.

They are all over the map and this is even within the same manufacturer.

I have seen 140 Metzler NARROWER than 130 Dunlop.

The stock 1100 sizes listed on the sidewall is dead wrong. You install a "90" height tire on front and it is really close to the fender. If you use 110 front and 90 height it almost rubs.

Whatever tire you pick get the tire fitment guide from THAT manufacturer and compare the tire dimentions that YOU measure on your bike with YOUR ruler,since tire companies do not own a ruler.

As for Bridgestone. They are a primary contractor and design the tire around the bike to get a captive market until the other brands "catch up". I for one would not use Bridgestone tires on a coaster wagon and would not buy a new bike unless they could be replaced with a GOOD brand.

Until they stopped making them Metzler comp "K" ME33,ME1 was good. Then ME99 rear. Finally turned to crap for old bikes.

Avon also made nice tires the Azarro line,but alas not in matching sizes.

Dunlop Arrow Max GT-501 is up to date design and "V" rated. The sizes we need will also probably go away.

You match the tire to the rim. Stock 750/900 is 100 wide front,the 1100 can go to 110. The 750/900 rear is 130 wide and the 1100 is 140 wide. Later profiles are more triangular on front so it will steer nice. A wide regular profile will make a bike steer like a truck. The triangular deal steers nice but puts down a large footprint leaned over.

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:33 pm

That is why I went with "only" a 100/90 on the front...35mm forks,no fork brace,
how much do I need here? The 100 retains the "classic" old school bike look and
the BT45r's are plenty sticky.....even if Bridgestone did'nt come over here and
design them around my bike Laughing

....they will probably wear out too fast,and cause a rash on my balloon knot...but it's all about fun RIGHT Twisted Evil

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:59 pm

melchiro wrote:

Batan wrote:

Man, oh man. You guys are no help! LOL
Everybody seems to have a different answer.

I was set on getting 100 front and 130 back when I started the thread, but now I'm stumped again.

Let's try this again. Stock 750F, reversed Comstars:

E - 100/90(BT45), 130(BT45)
A

Batan,

I choose this size but rather put AVON AM26 Roadrider tires.

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/?page=tyres&method=showspecs&id=6

Google it, read peoples opinions on this.... Wink

Ok, will check thouse out!

sonicrete wrote:

I will chime in now.

The size listed on the sidewall does not have one damn thing to do with the size you measure with a ruler.

They are all over the map and this is even within the same manufacturer.

I have seen 140 Metzler NARROWER than 130 Dunlop.

The stock 1100 sizes listed on the sidewall is dead wrong. You install a "90" height tire on front and it is really close to the fender. If you use 110 front and 90 height it almost rubs.

Whatever tire you pick get the tire fitment guide from THAT manufacturer and compare the tire dimentions that YOU measure on your bike with YOUR ruler,since tire companies do not own a ruler.

As for Bridgestone. They are a primary contractor and design the tire around the bike to get a captive market until the other brands "catch up". I for one would not use Bridgestone tires on a coaster wagon and would not buy a new bike unless they could be replaced with a GOOD brand.

Until they stopped making them Metzler comp "K" ME33,ME1 was good. Then ME99 rear. Finally turned to crap for old bikes.

Avon also made nice tires the Azarro line,but alas not in matching sizes.

Dunlop Arrow Max GT-501 is up to date design and "V" rated. The sizes we need will also probably go away.

You match the tire to the rim. Stock 750/900 is 100 wide front,the 1100 can go to 110. The 750/900 rear is 130 wide and the 1100 is 140 wide. Later profiles are more triangular on front so it will steer nice. A wide regular profile will make a bike steer like a truck. The triangular deal steers nice but puts down a large footprint leaned over.

Well, you don't leave much choice then at all. I can see the sizes being wonky though, I will measure my S11s and see how wide they actually are. When you say "triangular" you mean the somewhat triangular profile vs somewhat square?

EDIT: V rating does not mean much as 750F can't climb to V speeds. Confused

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:18 am

Just for information. I prefer the Dunlop GT-501 as a later tire than previous now not available K591. The 591 has sizes removed and the sidewall now says Harley Davidson,so only Harley sizes available. These are on my 750 based 955cc bike,(900 wheels reverse comstar) as well as the Turbo Kawasaki.

These are fairly nice for grip and are usually on sale through places like Competion Accesories,etc.

The triangular deal was comparing certain Metzler Laser ME33 to others. Really hard to do by just reading the literature. The Avon Azarro really works nice on my 1100 compared to the best previous Metzler ME33/ME1 combination,so naturally they stopped making these as well. In effect the tread pattern and kevlar belted design is simlar between these.

This is comparing to the stock Bridgestone that came on the bike. Might as well just ride right on the rim,no grip and no life.

The problem is it is hard to get matching front and rear for these bikes. Unknown why all the tire manufacturers dropped these sizes considering the 19/18 used to be common. The turbo takes 18/18 and regardless do not have the ultra wide rims needed for modern tires.

I suppose when every brand has died we will all be on Bridgestones,but I will give up riding then.

This goes back to my 1100 when new the damn front tire did not hold at all and I almost died by pickup truck front end when it ran wide. I said It was going to get a slick from the race bike before I EVER rode on Bridestones again. It also goes back to when we were a dealer same bikes sometimes had Dunlop some had Brigestones. I put them on level with Cheng Shin but they may be up grade now,but not in my mind.

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:32 am

sonicrete wrote:

This is comparing to the stock Bridgestone that came on the bike. Might as well just ride right on the rim,no grip and no life.

Isn't that talking about the lumps of hard rubber they put on the rims to stop them getting scratched in transit 25 years ago? You'll find that modern Bridgestones are pretty much like any modern tyre!
[p.s. Bridgestone have also given up making motorbikes as well....] Laughing

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:55 am

OK I give up. Bridgestones are modern tires.

I find it hard to believe a kevlar belted tire,especially the Avon Azarro,to not be "better" than ANY Bridgestone.

Avon was first to develop the high hysterious rubber compound,ie grips wet and gets stickier as it heats up all modern tires depend. This was mid 1960's. The aramid fiber belt is wound on at various distance apart. This is to make it grip better leaned over and not expand at speeds.

In the case of the Azarro it made the 1100 stick like glue and this was comparing Comp "K" Metzler. They made a RADIAL tire that fit the stock 1100 size rims and this is what makes it work.

The Azarro has been replaced by the new Storm and naturally not available in 1100F sizes.

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:27 am

Well, this thread has turned into some good info tire-wise! I went down to measure the tire width for the hell of it and my back 110/90 S11 measures 115.5mm across.
I still made no decision. LOL

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:54 pm

Just by chance, surfing the internet I found this article, funny thing, it vindicates / countenances my position on this issue.

Check it out:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/sizes.htm

Jaime._________________________________________________________