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spartan8ball
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:57 am Reply with quote Back to top

Anybody else have this happen? Your bidding on something on ebay, and someone myseteriously knows how to jack up the price without going over your maximum bid? This has happened to me three times in the last week, and the bidder name was always something like a***r, with different letters, but always those three asterisks in the middle. They all had feedback from 0-5 as well.

Has ebay fallen prey to the pirates as well?
 
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TheFox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The *** is part of ebay's new policy so that the full IDs are not known so others can't email the buyers for a little back door shenanigans

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andrea
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

spartan8ball wrote:
Has ebay fallen prey to the pirates as well?


how about ebay itself doing it, and gaining from the higher fees (both ebay and paypal, a company owned by ebay) coming out of a higher sell price ? not something nice to think about...
 
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f4fast
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think the only way to defend yourself from shill bidding is to only bid what you think something is worth, right from the beginning.

If the seller wants to shill bid up to near the level that they think the part is worth, there is not much you can do if the seller is willing to re list.

I think the hidden bidder policy does increase prices. The tipping point will occur when E-Bay sales drop below what they perceive they are losing from by-passed outside sales.

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davelepka
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Don't think that's what he's talking about. A shill bidder is an actual person who just drives the price of an item up. If it's a no reserve deal, it may be to ensure there's a 'reserve' or if there is a reserve it might just be to drive the price up, and encourage a bidding war.

A 'bot' would be a program within the system where the current high bidder would would always be near their maximum bid. For example, if I bid on an item that was currently at $10 with a maximum bid of $30, Ebay is supposed to bid on my behalf, just enough to keep me the high bidder, up to $30. What the bot would do is make sure that I end up paying close to my maximum bid, even if there are no other bidders. Ebay knows I've agreed to pay $30, so even if there are no other bids on the item at all, instead of me getting it for $10.50, they would 'invent' bidder to drive the price up to $29.50. High enough to get my money, but no so high that I loose the auction.

I really hope they're not using a bot. A 100% honest Ebay is a goldmine. No production, no inventory, very little staff, and huge cash flow. If they can't just be happy with that, those are some greedy, greedy people.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

davelepka wrote:
A 'bot' would be a program within the system where the current high bidder would would always be near their maximum bid. For example, if I bid on an item that was currently at $10 with a maximum bid of $30, Ebay is supposed to bid on my behalf, just enough to keep me the high bidder, up to $30. What the bot would do is make sure that I end up paying close to my maximum bid, even if there are no other bidders. Ebay knows I've agreed to pay $30, so even if there are no other bids on the item at all, instead of me getting it for $10.50, they would 'invent' bidder to drive the price up to $29.50. High enough to get my money, but no so high that I loose the auction.

I would think that would be illegal - fraud. Why would eBay risk class action lawsuit for this. I tend to think something else is at work - perhaps snipers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There is a pile of crap on ebay (people wise). I found this piece:

Image

Haven't seen one go for less than $25+4.99 S/H. You can buy this piece from its manufacture for 19.95+S/H. Certainly no deal there. People are either foolish enough to assume that they will be getting a deal or this guy is shilling big time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Keep in mind that another bidder doesn't know what your max bid is. Say (using previous example) you popped in a 30 dollar bid, and your shown bid is 10 dollars. Mr X thinks this item is worth 18 dollars. He bids that. Your bid still is the leader, but now shows at 19 dollars. That's what proxy bidding is all about. Mr X has to rebid to get to a number that exceeds your original 30 dollar bid to take the lead.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Wait until the last few seconds and then bid!
 
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bmcdonau
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

CB900SS wrote:
I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Wait until the last few seconds and then bid!


I'll only bid using sniper software, but I still end up winning less than half my bids and most the time I end up paying about what the item is worth. There are so many knowledgeable people out there its hard to get a bargain anymore. That doesn't mean there aren't enough duufus' to overpay though. I see parts, which are still available from Honda, go for lots more than Honda want's for it.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

BlueThunder wrote:
davelepka wrote:
A 'bot' would be a program within the system where the current high bidder would would always be near their maximum bid. For example, if I bid on an item that was currently at $10 with a maximum bid of $30, Ebay is supposed to bid on my behalf, just enough to keep me the high bidder, up to $30. What the bot would do is make sure that I end up paying close to my maximum bid, even if there are no other bidders. Ebay knows I've agreed to pay $30, so even if there are no other bids on the item at all, instead of me getting it for $10.50, they would 'invent' bidder to drive the price up to $29.50. High enough to get my money, but no so high that I loose the auction.

I would think that would be illegal - fraud. Why would eBay risk class action lawsuit for this. I tend to think something else is at work - perhaps snipers.


2 reasons. If no one catches you you lose nothing and make more.
Even if you do get caught, settleing out of court makes the issue disappear quickly and you lose nothing either.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It has been my long held opinion that our eBay forum has done more to jack up CB part prices than anything else.
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

79cb750f wrote:
It has been my long held opinion that our eBay forum has done more to jack up CB part prices than anything else.


How?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

CB900SS wrote:
I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Wait until the last few seconds and then bid!


+1

Bid once
Bid late
Bid your full amount

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

TomStrasser wrote:
2 reasons. If no one catches you you lose nothing and make more.
Even if you do get caught, settleing out of court makes the issue disappear quickly and you lose nothing either.


I don't know I would think if eBay it self were found guilty the class action suit against them would be crippling. I'm no lawyer, but I think this whould be a violation of the Sherman Act.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It has turned motorcycle building into an exercise in computer manipulation. The FIRST guy who did a CBR swap created a BREAKTHROUGH. The 351st however....I'll bet on the 2011 Spring NE Ride, swaps will outnumber stock bikes. And I will riding the last 750cc bike with Comstars. And keeping up.



By making unobtanium available, but expensive. It DOES get it out there, because it now HAS WORTH, (instead of being stuck in a box)
What do I know. Priced NOS parts for an ELR lately? A CBX? $4k for an exhaust? $3k for a tank? Shit, I remember when they were USED BIKES. And WORTHLESS.



Now everyone with junk in the garage will think it's gold, and eBay is freaking Barrett-Jackson.



Luckily, an ELR is based on a relatively common bike (KZ1000J) and only an EXPERT (which I AM) can tell the difference between a real one (which mine IS) and a clone. The economy going into the tank hopefully has ended the foolishness. But my repaint tank and repro graphics stripe kit are gonna hafta do it because a $2k tank ain't gonna happen on my budget.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

bmcdonau wrote:
CB900SS wrote:
I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Wait until the last few seconds and then bid!


I'll only bid using sniper software, but I still end up winning less than half my bids and most the time I end up paying about what the item is worth. There are so many knowledgeable people out there its hard to get a bargain anymore. That doesn't mean there aren't enough duufus' to overpay though. I see parts, which are still available from Honda, go for lots more than Honda want's for it.


The Ebay bargains seem to be few and far between anymore. Ever notice how search results are overwhelmed with 'buy it now' results? And, it's not n not unusual for the buy in now prices to be higher than just about anywhere else. The 'buy it now' is easy enough to filter out, I just think that it's crazy when you get 2800 results back from a search, and 2600 of them are 'buy it now'.
 
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pontiacstogo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

79cb750f wrote:
By making unobtanium available, but expensive. It DOES get it out there, because it now HAS WORTH, (instead of being stuck in a box). What do I know. Priced NOS parts for an ELR lately? A CBX? $4k for an exhaust? $3k for a tank? Shit, I remember when they were USED BIKES. And WORTHLESS.

Now everyone with junk in the garage will think it's gold, and eBay is freaking Barrett-Jackson.


Sure prices have gone up because of eBay. There's no doubt it's bought a wider audience to an ever dwindling supply of used or NOS items - but you said 'our eBay forum' had driven up prices;

79cb750f wrote:
It has been my long held opinion that our eBay forum has done more to jack up CB part prices than anything else.


Blame eBay if you like, but I honestly don't think 'our eBay forum' has had any impact.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

pontiacstogo wrote:
Blame eBay if you like, but I honestly don't think 'our eBay forum' has had any impact.

Unless one takes into account that this forum is where its at for F's - worldwide I might add. Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When bids get within one cent - Yeah it is suspect and it does happen often. How about second chance offer 10 min after the auction ends.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The eBay forum here has had an impact on prices for the parts these bikes need. I can search ebay fairly well on my own but quite a few others cannot. The ebay forum makes it easier for everyone, kind of like one stop shopping and many people who would otherwise miss the sale or not think about needing the part for a spare can easily make the decision to purchase a part. If 15 people see the sale where 3 or 4 saw it before when they had to search on their own the price has got to go up. There is always someone with deeper pockets around the corner. I have a ton of spares myself from a few years back that I purchased at decent prices. After the ebay forum became very active with posts, I saw prices jump by 50 to 100% overnight. Simple supply and demand.

Our forum has also had an impact from the standpoint of gathering a group of people together who enjoy these particular bikes, ability to service them, and increase in value with time because of it. It seems to me like a couple things are happening frequently. First, it seems most F series bikes for sale on ebay usually referance this site in their ad as a great resource for info, which it is. The second thing that seems to happen a lot is that someone will post on the parts wanted section of this forum that they need a new muffler bearing and surprisingly the next day or so a muffler bearing appears on ebay for the first time in months. This site has indeed made this bike more popular and more recognizable. I know of at least 6 people who bought an F bike because of mine or going to the Honda Hoot gathering on a different bike only to return the next year on an F bike. You think you have a nice bike and then you go to an F gathering and see what others have done, then you go back home and start trying to locate those rare parts that will put your bike in the condition of the others at the gathering. The rest is supply and demand.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

i tend to agree with larry it is supply and demand and you only have to check this site to see the mods that are going on to realize that there a lot of people buying mod parts and spares i have a shed full now and i have only started
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Larry wrote:
The eBay forum here has had an impact on prices for the parts these bikes need.


We've discussed this before. You're assuming that every F owner visits this forum. I used to sell a lot of F parts on eBay and the majority of people that purchased parts from me had never even heard of this place. This place is a great meeting place for fans of the F but don't make the mistake of assuming the small group here represents the worldwide base of F fans or owners - it's not even close.

I stopped posting large numbers of auctions in the eBay watch section at the beginning of 2007 and sold 10 sets of lattice rearsets AFTER that time that were NOT listed in the eBay watch section here (because at that stage no-one was listing items in that forum) - every one of those sets got the same prices they did in previous sales.

People who really want stuff will (and do) find it on their own.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

pontiacstogo wrote:
Larry wrote:
The eBay forum here has had an impact on prices for the parts these bikes need.


We've discussed this before. You're assuming that every F owner visits this forum. I used to sell a lot of F parts on eBay and the majority of people that purchased parts from me had never even heard of this place. This place is a great meeting place for fans of the F but don't make the mistake of assuming the small group here represents the worldwide base of F fans or owners - it's not even close.

I stopped posting large numbers of auctions in the eBay watch section at the beginning of 2007 and sold 10 sets of lattice rearsets AFTER that time that were NOT listed in the eBay watch section here (because at that stage no-one was listing items in that forum) - every one of those sets got the same prices they did in previous sales.

People who really want stuff will (and do) find it on their own.


I am not assuming that every F owner in the world is on the site. But, I will say that there are quite a few people who own F bikes here. The site would not be what it is if that were not the case. Just glancing to my left at the "Online Now" list, I see 47 members and 35 guests for a total of 82 people checking the site as I type. Quite a few people checking things out. I am just repeating what I experienced with my ebay purchases. The fact that you have sold 10 sets of lattice rearsets sine 2007 and did not post them here really does not mean much. Almost every ebay seller I have dealt with , and some I have not, I have the ability to keep as a favorite seller and can see what they are selling whenever I desire. So not posting them here does not stop someone from knowing what you are selling. I am not trying to place blame on you or John for making the prices go up, I am just sayiong that posting on the ebay forum has opened the door for quite a few people to find things they may not have ever found. That is not a bad thing because it keeps the bikes alive and helps out members and friends. How many items did you find on Germany or Japan ebay before other people even realized it was possable? Knowing how to search for and neogetiate parts purchases is an art. Some have it and some do not.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

stubbz wrote:
When bids get within one cent - Yeah it is suspect and it does happen often. How about second chance offer 10 min after the auction ends.

I've gotten a couple of those. I immediately decide not to purchase from that seller. (Except for when I've gotten them when I knew that the seller had multiple items - like they also have an Ebay store)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="pontiacstogo"]
Larry wrote:
...This place is a great meeting place for fans of the F but don't make the mistake of assuming the small group here represents the worldwide base of F fans or owners - it's not even close...


Pete, is this your gut sense or do you have some way to know that--other than through the mere fact that way more than 7,570 (our current membership) F bikes were minted?

I know this is sort of a jog in the topic, but short, I hope, of an outright hijack. I ask because numerous of us have developed possibly unique approaches to repairs, modifications and so forth for our bikes, and I have a sense that this forum is sometimes used as a way of gauging interest. But that may be misleading if the potential "market" is really way bigger than our membership. Take, for example, the starter clutch modifications that Martin and Tom have each done. That's an expensive proposition, and if these guys have made production decisions based on the feedback from this site they might have been discouraged from going forward with a pretty nifty improvement. On the other hand, if this site albeit small, is still a representative slice of F owners, then reliance on responses from our members might not be misplaced.

So I was just wondering.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Larry wrote:
Just glancing to my left at the "Online Now" list, I see 47 members and 35 guests for a total of 82 people checking the site as I type. Quite a few people checking things out.


The list on the left does not accurately show who is on now - the 'Who Is Online Now' at the bottom of the forum list does.

Larry wrote:
The fact that you have sold 10 sets of lattice rearsets sine 2007 and did not post them here really does not mean much. Almost every ebay seller I have dealt with , and some I have not, I have the ability to keep as a favorite seller and can see what they are selling whenever I desire. So not posting them here does not stop someone from knowing what you are selling.


C'mon now - you're telling me you go through your favourite sellers lists very 7 days to see what they are selling? What did I sell last week? Of course it means something - it was an interesting experiment that I've commented on previously. As a seller you get to see how many people are watching and bidding on your auctions and those numbers did not change or diminish AT ALL even though those items were not listed in the eBay watch section here and were spread out over several months.

Let's be serious now - people may see stuff listed in the eBay watch section here and add it to their watch list but I'm willing to bet there isn't a single person here that uses the eBay watch section here as their PRIMARY means of finding parts - ergo people are going to search and find items on their own regardless.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

pontiacstogo wrote:
Larry wrote:
Just glancing to my left at the "Online Now" list, I see 47 members and 35 guests for a total of 82 people checking the site as I type. Quite a few people checking things out.


The list on the left does not accurately show who is on now - the 'Who Is Online Now' at the bottom of the forum list does.



No, it really does. Shows people ANYWHERE on the site, including just sitting on the home page.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

CB1100F wrote:
pontiacstogo wrote:
Larry wrote:
Just glancing to my left at the "Online Now" list, I see 47 members and 35 guests for a total of 82 people checking the site as I type. Quite a few people checking things out.


The list on the left does not accurately show who is on now - the 'Who Is Online Now' at the bottom of the forum list does.



No, it really does. Shows people ANYWHERE on the site, including just sitting on the home page.

I never show up on the Online now list (or at least I can never see me there).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

PGSmick wrote:
Pete, is this your gut sense or do you have some way to know that--other than through the mere fact that way more than 7,570 (our current membership) F bikes were minted?


It's a 'gut sense' based on what I see on other forums and commercial sites (Yahoo, TradeMe etc.).

As far as I know, Glenn does not purge inactive memberships so the 7,570 number represents every single person that has ever logged on here from the time the site first went online. I'm guessing that the actual active membership would be a much, much smaller number and would depend on the criteria you use to determine an active member - maybe those that have visited the site in the last 6 months?

This site is certainly the most active F forum in NA and may well be the most active worldwide - we have people stopping in here from all sorts of different countries. But for every Dutch member we have (for example) there are hundreds of Dutch F owners or fans that aren't active here. Same would be true of German fans, and many other countries as well. Japan is the real extreme example - we have one or two Japanese F fans that stop in here but there is a HUGE following of these bikes in Japan so the numbers that visit here are miniscule compared to the total number of Japanese F fans. Add all this up, and there is a much larger number of F owners and F enthusiasts than this site's membership represents.

Other ways to gauge this is to look at online marketplaces for F bikes and parts in other countries. I check out online trading sites in NZ and Australia from time to time and there are always bikes and parts for sale from owners that are most likely not members here. When someone from Europe posts ride photos with a gathering of F bikes - do you think all of those folks are checking in here and looking at our posts (much less our eBay watch section)? I highly doubt it.

Again, as far as F sites go this is quite possibly the most diverse because of the different nationalities and different people that frequent here. For that reason alone it may provide the best available 'representation' of F owners and their likes and dislikes. But in the grand scheme of things, I would have to believe there are more F owners/fans who aren't members here than F owners/fans who are.

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