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Honda CB750/900/1100F SuperSport Website: SuperSport Forums


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DennisTheMenace
Black CB750F
Black CB750F



Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: Corrales, NM (by Albuquerque)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, as Sonicrete pointed out if you make a plug so the 750 frame clamps together using some type of male/female positive clamp that's much better than hoping the motor mount plates keept the front of the downtube where it's supposed to be. They should have made the removeable section totally between the motor mounts instead of tying the motor mount, top frame and removeable frame all together with a couple of 8mm bolts all in one place. If you have a 900F or 1100F tube to look at you'll see the plug the frame clamps to and just try to copy that.

I forgot there's one other thing I do on the front mounts - I don't run a long through bolt and single nut, but instead run two short bolts on each side of the motor so each motor side clamps to that frame side. I think it's much better at clamping the motor and frame together and less apt to move.

One of the things I still see when I pull any of my racebike motors is there is a chafing or polishing between the motor and the mount so I think there is still frame flex causing the frame to twist. I don't know if you'll ever get it all out on one of these old spaghetti frames, but you can get enough out to make it feel MUCH better. You're just reducing how much and how soon you get undesireable movement.

Melchiro - I saw something where WMRRA is going to have some kind of vintage thing in the summer but I couldn't find anything more out about it. Do you know anything? I checked their website but couldn't decipher anything, and it looks like they only run older, smaller vintage stuff.
 
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Geddy
Hawk
Hawk



Joined: Feb 04, 2007
Posts: 340
Location: Fargo, North Dakota

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Speaking of flex... RAY !!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE !!! MAKE QUAGMIRE STOP !!!!!
 
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melchiro
Silver CB900F
Silver CB900F



Joined: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 1450
Location: Mill Creek, WA.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Dennis, I saw this part in the rule books;

"Classic Superbike" class regulations.

A. Includes model years 1973 through 1985.

B. The classes consist of:
1. Lightweight Classic Superbike (up to 550cc)
2. Open Classic Superbike (up to 1100cc - Not offered in 2007)
C. Engines must be air cooled.
D. Rear suspension must be twin shock.

General vintage regulations: applies to all vintage and classic superbike classes.
A. Modifications may be carried out to upgrade a motorcycle to period specification only. No components are allowed that fall outside of the era of the class.
B. Downgrading of racing machines is not permitted.

Your 750F may be running against Kawasaki KZ & Suzuki GS 1000s. Haven't seen any CB-Fs race here in the past 5yrs. I do know that every bike, new and old had to have some kind of oil catch pan. Some of the old CB160s had some pretty fancy oven baking pans under their bikes.
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3279
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Blaine, I actually downloaded all of your frame pics for bracing referance. Great stuff! Thanks. You and Stout should join me on June 13th for a track day. I have that day set aside already...


Im glad somebody found them usefull Melchiro..... Ill keep track day in mind.... Da Beast should be all better by then and who knows, Stout may have his Da Beast2 built....

But I digress. This is a frame flex thread... Shocked
 
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fasterspider
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 15809
Location: Studio City, Los Angeles, Ca. 91604

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Blainethemono wrote:


But I digress. This is a frame flex thread... Shocked

So make sure that when you goto track day, you ride your Beast hard enough that she should have flexed but couldn't because she is too well bracxed.
Have fun at track day Bob.

My next bike build is going to get braced in the front of the frame and the back. I am going to see if I an improve the ride on the next bike compared to the black bike.
My red flexi-flyer will flex no more as a CB1100F, she is getting torn down little by little until there is only a frame which will go in the trash and then use her powerplant in my next build.
 
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bulldauq
Hawk
Hawk



Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 410
Location: Sikeston,Mo

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

fasterspider

I am here, you don't like it.
Too bad.
Until Glenn tells me that I am not welcome here, I am staying


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Make absolutely no mistake about this Ray, as far as I'm concerned, you are not welcome here, now or in the foreseeable future.
_________________
Glenn
´83 CB1100F , ´82 CBX, ´94 Wife
It’s a stone cold shame…
When you can’t take a man at his word. When he doesn’t have enough pride, shame or balls to honor his commitments, promises or threats.
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3279
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
So make sure that when you goto track day, you ride your Beast hard enough that she should have flexed but couldn't because she is too well bracxed. Have fun at track day Bob.


Ill try Ray, but I think Im suffering from the same disease as Howie. Fear of falling down and breaking some unrepairable custom part that would cost way to much $$ and time to recreate... I think Ill watch... Rolling Eyes Shocked
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3279
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well bulldaug. Ray is my friend, so I have asked Glenn to BAN YOUR ASS for harrassment!!!

So if ya dont like it..

TO BAD.....
 
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crashnfool
Silver CB750F
Silver CB750F



Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 600
Location: Olympia, Wa

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Blainethemono wrote:
Quote:
So make sure that when you goto track day, you ride your Beast hard enough that she should have flexed but couldn't because she is too well bracxed. Have fun at track day Bob.


Ill try Ray, but I think Im suffering from the same disease as Howie. Fear of falling down and breaking some unrepairable custom part that would cost way to much $$ and time to recreate... I think Ill watch... Rolling Eyes Shocked


Come on bob maybe you should play with that thing on the track sometime? Laughing
 
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Blainethemono
CB1100F
CB1100F



Joined: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 3279
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Come on bob maybe you should play with that thing on the track sometime?


Yeah, you are prolly right Fred. We shall see, we shall see.... Cool
 
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crashnfool
Silver CB750F
Silver CB750F



Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 600
Location: Olympia, Wa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Blainethemono wrote:
Quote:
Come on bob maybe you should play with that thing on the track sometime?


Yeah, you are prolly right Fred. We shall see, we shall see.... Cool


I might even ride up to watch that one!
 
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NorCalSuperF
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 226
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Sonicrete?
You're using this as an example of frame flex?

"On one of my first rides on a 900F was down the main drag for an easy left turn onto Main St. I made this turn plain gobs of times on many bikes over the years. So mid corner the bike "pushes" and tried to run me wide into the parking lot on the corner. Some years later my 1100 F did nearly the same deal and I almost bought the front end of a pickup truck in a right hand turn this time."

You were never anywhere near feeling frame flex in this or any other local neighborhood spin.
 
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sonicrete
Red CB1100F
Red CB1100F



Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 15487
Location: Lancaster,Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

If you think I am going to push something that will not hold the front end you are more foolish than I am.

At some point you will flex the front and this is more a banked turn than a dead flat turn it basically spirings,ie load and unload.

These things handle nice right up to you get confident then they go to hell in a hand basket.

At some point on old narrow wheels tires the bike was leaned over a lot and would slide. Newer stuff basically handles like a car more up and down and loads the tires because now the rims are wider and the tires stickier. This puts more "side loads" into the frame than previous. I think these were right at the transistion of old to new.

I can show you video of launching the drag bike from head on. You can see the forks and front wheel go obviously "out of line",so bad this looks I have seen people run off from it. Took a lot of bracing to get it to launch straight in line.
 
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Nunzio
Black CB750F
Black CB750F



Joined: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 930
Location: Hampton, GA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:14 am Reply with quote Back to top

I too have owned a CBX, very highly modified motor, top notch suspension pieces(Cal Fab, Works shocks, fork brace, Fork springs, and emulators. I can honestly say the CBX was very stable. I could wind it up out of corners just lighting up the rear tire in a controlled slide.

Now as far as the F frames. If there are high speed wobbles you can almost trace them to some worn bushing, bearing etc. But more likely it's a mis-alignment in frame geopmetry from the factory or from some incident.
Add the fact that as it wobbles people tend to tence up, which means you just connected the bikes front end wander to the rear end via your arms. You've just induced a more rigid connection to the tail of the motorcycle thru your death grip. Lighten the grip to where your bareley hanging on and watch the wobble settle back.

Alot of wobble comes from poor rebound damping of the rear end. Comming out of a corner hard, the bike tries to lift the rear(yes just like a shaft drive) and then counter that with the leaned over forces and the slip angle of the tires. Your trying to control 3 things.

Most of you guys around here always go for the engine mods above all else. Thats fine! What about correcting the suspension first in prep for all the power.(What good is power without control?)

I'd make it a point to get the frame checked if possible. I can attest the validity of using Computrack. I had a ZRX that I lowsided, went in a ditch and bent the forks and damaged the head steering stop slightly. I thought no big deal. New legs and bang the stop back in place. Wrong! I did some track days with that bike on occassion and the next time on the track the bike felt like crap. High speed wobble, no feedback in the bars when cornering.

I had the bike computracked and we found the head twisted .750 degrees from vertical. Do you know how much that throws the bike off at the contact patch of the tire? Alot! After it was straightened, the bike felt new again. Smile

I have raced alot and also instructed at the Dave Sadowski Roadrace School at Road Atlanta back in the 90's.(I used to paint his Helmets).
He taught me gobs about suspension setup and tuning.
 
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freebaggin101
Twinstar
Twinstar



Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 128
Location: where women glow and men chunder

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea

listen to him guys, he's the smartest one here... finally someone pieced together some of the problems maybe coming from the back of the bike..

Nunzio wrote:

Alot of wobble comes from poor rebound damping of the rear end. Comming out of a corner hard, the bike tries to lift the rear(yes just like a shaft drive) and then counter that with the leaned over forces and the slip angle of the tires. Your trying to control 3 things.


and looking at the massive swingarm angle some of you run, it's no wonder you have such bad handling...... that and those chinese vipex crap shocks...
 
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